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You can bet money that fakes are being made and soon there will be more of these showing up. It is the way it goes in this hobby and one reason why you really need to know what you are looking at!
 
That rifle will never be shot, this is not about shooting, it is about history. That is a very rare rifle that is amazing that it survived the 20th century in any condition. If you want to know why it is valuable, you need to understand history and the events that were occurring in Finland and Russia at the time that this rifle was put together. I would never pay that much for a MN91, but the person that won the auction and the person they were bidding against know what it is and put a value on it. He may never see $12,500 out of it or he might get $125,000 one day, the world is a funny place and this can be a strange hobby at times.
so is the history of that mosin any different than any other mosin? how is its history any better than any rifle at the cmp? i have a ww2 mosin as well and its only worth 100. i wonder if simos rifle is worth more since it has a history behind it. 505 pages of history to be exact.
 
If any Mosin guys have a rifle that they'd like to have look that salty, for a surprisingly small fee I've got some cowboy friends who'll oblige with no tricks, just normal use. The process should take about three months.
 
so is the history of that mosin any different than any other mosin? how is its history any better than any rifle at the cmp? i have a ww2 mosin as well and its only worth 100. i wonder if simos rifle is worth more since it has a history behind it. 505 pages of history to be exact.
Ok Danthman, a little history lesson.

Prior to 1917, Finland was a part of Russia and the Tsar ruled as the Grand Duke of Finland. After Russia's Bolshevik Revolution of November 1917, Finnish Bolsheviks seized power in Helsinki and Southern Finland. A brutal Red(communist)/White(royalist/democratic) civil war broke out immediately. The White Guard anti communist forces were organized and commanded by Baron Carl Gustaf Emil Mannerheim (1867-1951), a Finnish aristocrat and former tsarist general. His troops were largely trained by German soldiers, (and included a few German troops) and in fierce fighting Mannerheim largely crushed the communists by mid 1918, although sporadic fighting went on until 1920. Finland maintained a precarious independence until the Soviets grew strong enough to trample it in the Winter War of 1939-40 which began with a sneak attack on Helsinki by Russian bombers on November 30, 1939.

Finland's new army and civil guard were armed with whatever weapons were in tsarist imperial arsenals in Finland when the civil war broke out, they also received Mosin Nagants from Germany after World War I ended.

This rifle is from one of the early up grade programs of these surplus Mosin Nagants by Finland. It was up graded in 1919-1920 at the Soumen Ampumatarvikkeetehdas (Finnish Ammunition Factory) at Riimaki which manufactured the barrel that is marked SAT in a circle. Only approx 200 of these barrels were made. Finland would later buy 18,000 barrels from German manufactures, they would not be able to mass produce barrels until much later.

The above info is from Terence lapin's book, " The Mosin Nagant"

So what you have in this rifle is a neat bit of history from the very early days of Modern Finnish Independence, it really is amazing given the events of the 20th century that this rifle surived!

It's value to some is priceless, to others it is just another Mosin Nagant M91 Infantry Rifle. But just think of if it could tell you of the stories of the events that it witnessed, it has transcended from a firearm to an object of history and the story of the Finnish Peoples struggle against Russia and later the Soviet Union.

Is it worth $12,500? To you and I, no. But to those that bid on it and to the future owners, yes.
 
Well Tom,

you did a great job explaining, whether they understood is a different story.
Hell I learned something and I thank you for it.

I may have to go an get me one, but I do prefer it to be in the couple hundred dollar range.
 
Thanks Ren! I have owned quite a few over the years, some very good ones. I had some great Imperial M91's from 1897 through 1918 and a few Soviet rifles. I sold all but two when I came West, I kept a 1923 dated Dragoon and a 91/30 sniper. They really are interesting rifles that were used in heavy combat and the oppression/liberation of many people during the first half of the 20th century. Pick one up when you can, they are part of history.
 
I would like to have the sniper version, just holding it and thinking all it must have seen and done. It does make ones imagination run wild. An object with a storied past is a wonderful thing.
 
So what you have in this rifle is a neat bit of history from the very early days of Modern Finnish Independence, it really is amazing given the events of the 20th century that this rifle surived!

It's value to some is priceless, to others it is just another Mosin Nagant M91 Infantry Rifle. But just think of if it could tell you of the stories of the events that it witnessed, it has transcended from a firearm to an object of history and the story of the Finnish Peoples struggle against Russia and later the Soviet Union.

Is it worth $12,500? To you and I, no. But to those that bid on it and to the future owners, yes.
That is interesting, but there's not a Mosin out there that doesn't have some kind of story to tell. Think of all the M91's and what they went through during WWI and the Russian Revolution. All the Cossack and Dragoon versions that have been remade into M91/30's, and all the 91/30's and M44's used during WWII. I'd love to have a beat up M91/30 that was used in the defense of Stalingrad, by the lowest ranking private in the Russian Army, if it could be proven it was so. Heck, I'd just like to be able to figure out where all the parts came from that are on the 1932 Tula-barreled M91/30 that I do own. I'm sure each one has a good story, and the amalgam, although it's not valuable in collector terms, makes it special in its own way.

I wouldn't give $12.5K for an M91 unless it was in mint condition and was the personal rifle of Mannerheim himself.
 
Ok Danthman, a little history lesson.
Prior to 1917, Finland was a part of Russia and the Tsar ruled as the Grand Duke of Finland. After Russia's Bolshevik Revolution of November 1917, Finnish Bolsheviks seized power in Helsinki and Southern Finland. A brutal Red(communist)/White(royalist/democratic) civil war broke out immediately. The White Guard anti communist forces were organized and commanded by Baron Carl Gustaf Emil Mannerheim (1867-1951), a Finnish aristocrat and former tsarist general. His troops were largely trained by German soldiers, (and included a few German troops) and in fierce fighting Mannerheim largely crushed the communists by mid 1918, although sporadic fighting went on until 1920. Finland maintained a precarious independence until the Soviets grew strong enough to trample it in the Winter War of 1939-40 which began with a sneak attack on Helsinki by Russian bombers on November 30, 1930.
Finland's new army and civil guard were armed with whatever weapons were in tsarist imperial arsenals in Finland when the civil war broke out, they also received Mosin Nagants from Germany after World War I ended.
This rifle is from one of the early up grade programs of these surplus Mosin Nagants by Finland. It was up graded at the Soumen Ampumatarvikkeetehdas (Finnish Ammunition Factory) at Riimaki which manufactured the barrel that is marked SAT in a circle. Only approx 200 of these barrels were made. Finland would later buy 18,000 barrels from German manufactures, they would not be able to mass produce barrels until much later.
The above info is from Terence lapin's book, " The Mosin Nagant"
So what you have in this rifle is a neat bit of history from the very early days of Modern Finnish Independence, it really is amazing given the events of the 20th century that this rifle surived!
It's value to some is priceless, to others it is just another Mosin Nagant M91 Infantry Rifle. But just think of if it could tell you of the stories of the events that it witnessed, it has transcended from a firearm to an object of history and the story of the Finnish Peoples struggle against Russia and later the Soviet Union.
Is it worth $12,500? To you and I, no. But to those that bid on it and to the future owners, yes.
Great story & even better commentary. Excellent work, Glashaus
 
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Thanks Ren! I have owned quite a few over the years, some very good ones. I had some great Imperial M91's from 1897 through 1918 and a few Soviet rifles. I sold all but two when I came West, I kept a 1923 dated Dragoon and a 91/30 sniper. They really are interesting rifles that were used in heavy combat and the oppression/liberation of many people during the first half of the 20th century. Pick one up when you can, they are part of history.
My favorite in my little group of five Mosin Nagant 91/30s is a 1920 Izhevsk Ex-Dragoon. It was very fun sorting through a crate of them at the gun shop. I wouldn't ever pay 12 grand for one, but I feel good about the $139 I shelled out for each of mine.
 
Yeah, 12K is very high price from MN, even if it's Finn made.

I've seen the rifle of Simo Hayha during my service in Karelian Jaeger Battallion, in North Karelian Brigade. But I haven't ever seen SAT made MN. And I'm from Finland. So I understand value of this rifle to some collector.

I would probably spent my money to unused m/39 rifle (400-500 euro).
 
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