M14 Rifle: Real Reason Why US Navy Seals Still Swear by This Six-Decades-Old Rifle
Tom Paine
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Where's the M-14?
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[US National Archives] Armed with an M14 rifle, a US Navy Sea-Air-Land (SEAL) team member hides in the foiliage at the edge of a river while providing cover for fellow team members during a tactical warfare training. He is using a flotation device to minimize his swimming movements. 9/1/1987
Appeared that SEALs love the A1/E2 stocks.
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Appeared that SEALs love the A1/E2 stocks.
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Novel approach to keeping sand out of the action.[Navy Seal Museum photo] Another SEAL w/ M14
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Having spent a little time in the sand box, I can attest that the sand is more like talcum powder. I still have some in my stuff 31 years later. I might be a horder. I should have gotten rid of much of this stuff a long time ago...
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[Navy Seal Museum photo] Another SEAL w/ M14
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And fiberglass stock cameo. Very cool.
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On the topic of sand in the action...
Which is more sensitive to sand/dirt/mud external as well as internal carbon fouling?
M16
M14
AK-47
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Thanks for those pics from 1987. Back in the 1980s I get the impression that SEALs liked the M14A1 configuration (E2) stock, but minus the front grip. They are reportedly easier to control in full-auto with the pistol grip on the E2 stock. A guy at Crane told me that SEALS liked them back then for the ergonomics, but after getting submerged a few too many times, the wood would start to warp and eventually the pistol grip would come loose on wooden E2 stocks. That was his recollection when I asked about SEALs and E2 stocks.
The SEALs wanted an M14 rifle that was more robust and shorter, and this same small arms engineer at Crane was responsible for developing with SAGE a robust aluminum chassis system in the early 2000s. This program started with the Mk 14 Mod 0s circa 2004-5. The last M14s designed for use by Navy SEALs was the Mk 14 Mod 1 that was first issued circa 2007-8ish, as seen here:
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...but I suspect most of those rifles have been replaced for the NSW/SEAL guys, and I doubt those elite warriors are still using the M14 these days...so the title of this article in this thread is quite misleading as of 2022 - (it would be an appropriate title if written a decade ago or more - back when the Mk 14 Mod 0/1 were in widespread use).
The Navy does still use M14s in some EOD roles (including the Mk 14 Mod 0), and I heard the Mk 14 Mod 2 was still used as a DMR as of 2020 with the NECC sailors (aka 'brown water Navy'), but the 'tip of the spear' Navy SEALs and SOCOM guys are using more modern platforms at this point in time. (Not sure if the Coast Guard is still using their SAGE-based M14 T, but perhaps others know more.)
The SEALs wanted an M14 rifle that was more robust and shorter, and this same small arms engineer at Crane was responsible for developing with SAGE a robust aluminum chassis system in the early 2000s. This program started with the Mk 14 Mod 0s circa 2004-5. The last M14s designed for use by Navy SEALs was the Mk 14 Mod 1 that was first issued circa 2007-8ish, as seen here:
...but I suspect most of those rifles have been replaced for the NSW/SEAL guys, and I doubt those elite warriors are still using the M14 these days...so the title of this article in this thread is quite misleading as of 2022 - (it would be an appropriate title if written a decade ago or more - back when the Mk 14 Mod 0/1 were in widespread use).
The Navy does still use M14s in some EOD roles (including the Mk 14 Mod 0), and I heard the Mk 14 Mod 2 was still used as a DMR as of 2020 with the NECC sailors (aka 'brown water Navy'), but the 'tip of the spear' Navy SEALs and SOCOM guys are using more modern platforms at this point in time. (Not sure if the Coast Guard is still using their SAGE-based M14 T, but perhaps others know more.)
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I’ll vote the M16 as the finicky one.
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I concur. And I know this is Holy War bait.
I didn't say this, but I put the M16's derivatives under the same umbrella. While the idea of direct impingement is genius, it is very dirty, and requires too much care & cleaning. I am repeating what I read in an article, but I think it was correct in claiming that the Army places too much emphasis on accuracy. It seems like an example of "better being the enemy of good enough."
I didn't mention the Ruger Mini-14, but with the improvements made 15-20 years ago (mainly the heavier barrel) I think it is superior to the M16 as an infantry MBR. But I also think the AK is better simply because it can take a lot of dirt, and still function. I rank the M14 close to the Mini-14 because they are so similar. Of course a Mini-14 seems like an M14 and an M1 Carbine gave birth to a 556 baby.
I have a bias for gas-piston rifles simply because they are easier to maintain in general. One thing I don't know is how often extended combat -- to the point that cleaning a rifle is difficult -- occurs.
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I have a friend who flew helicopters in Vietnam and was issued an M-16 upon arriving. He immediately set it aside and picked up an AK, which he carried throughout his tour. Occasionally he was able to get his hands on an M-14, which he describes as a wonderful weapon. His thoughts and experiences were the same as yours. The AK was more reliable and he didn't want to have to count on the M-16 to save his life when needed. We haven't talked about the Mini-14, but I think he would agree that it was a fine weapon.
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Again, I am basing my opinion partly on what I have read by others, but it seems that a 4moa rifle which can take dirt and rough handling is better for the typical rifleman than a 2moa rifle which needs too much TLC to properly function. As with your helicopter pilot friend, I'd take an AK over a M16.
The main reason I have 2 ARs and an extra lower is the simple fact that this is what everyone will have if the SHTF. I still love my Mini-14, but it stinks that there are no good 3rd-party mags, at least that I know of,
and 20rnd Ruger mags are $33 to $50. If I recall, quality 30rnd AR mags can be had for $15-$20.
If anyone knows of good Mini-14 3rd-party mags, Please let me know!
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I submit that the problem is not necessarily the platform, nor the caliber, but rather "Big Army"... No hit on any of you guys in or out of uniform, BDUs, that is. As I've previously stated, the Army has looong history of throwing sick money at ridiculous weapons programs, Sergeant York, to name but one. It's all contract/kick back driven. That said, I do believe that the 6.8 has a niche. The Fifth Special Forces was working with several years back, but who knows what transpired there. As always, the folks on the ground know what they need. What we need, is to listen to them... That and not leave 80 billion dollars of it on the field of battle. Could it be that the same ones responsible for the waste in weapons research, are the same ones responsible for abandoning our equipment in Afghanistan?
I barely grazed the inspectors cheek while getting my rifle back, long story short it wasn't very fun doing mountain climbers in my dress uniform...!!!
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There may be other rifles, that superweed the M-14, but I do not think they will look as good, or have the lines, of a good looking rifle.
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The M16 will keep sand/dirt/mud out as long as you keep the dust cover closed. However, once the debris gets in you are screwed. You have to break the rifle down to clean it. It sh!ts where it eats, so carbon fouling is an issue, especially if burning ball powder.
The M14 will easily allow sand/dirt/mud into the action, just like the Garand. However, it can usually be cleared of such simply by dumping your canteen thru it, without having to break the rifle down. Easy in, but also easy out.
My experience with the AK-47 is that it is a robust and reliable weapon, with crappy sights, a crappy trigger, a crappy safety and difficult magazines. It was designed for poorly trained troops to dump a mag on full auto, before being killed by someone with a proper rifle.
Absolutly!
I have several antique or vintage view cameras (look like an accordion, put your head under a tble cloth) They look like fine furniture and are a creative link with the pioneers of photography such as Jackson, Curtis and Bradey.
M-14's left NSW a long time ago. The era I am familiar with started mid 90's. They were preferred for maritime and cold weather use vs the 727/M4.
We had the usual lego festivals cobbled together..
I had a 18.5" with choate stock (shortened the stock) and an aimpoint atop
SR25's took on the longer range accuracy role and some compact versions in LR assaulter roles. Then the SCAR and.. a few other m1913 festooned carbines required to afix the war widgets too.
We had the usual lego festivals cobbled together..
I had a 18.5" with choate stock (shortened the stock) and an aimpoint atop
SR25's took on the longer range accuracy role and some compact versions in LR assaulter roles. Then the SCAR and.. a few other m1913 festooned carbines required to afix the war widgets too.
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