The 60s vintage ones I know as legit from ole timers like Bill Ricca and others came in brown paper wrap as seen below, ones found in plastic bags I question. Just my 2 pennies.

 

The 60s vintage ones I know as legit from ole timers like Bill Ricca and others came in brown paper wrap as seen below, ones found in plastic bags I question. Just my 2 pennies.
View attachment 454406

That's a re-pack.

No contract number.

Since leather deteriorates with age, they get inspected and re-packaged periodically.

 

To add, going to fun shows since prolly 1977, I would see the paper wrapped ones, some as far back as WW2 dates. it wasn't until a couple of years ago that I started seeing these 60s dated ones in plastic bags show up on ebay.
Never came across any 70s dated ones in the wrap, but a bunch of 80s and 90s, 2000s in plastic bags.
It could be legit, from what I can see of it, it looks right. I've had that ebay one on watch list out of curiosity for a while now.

 

I’ve been watching it for a while also. When I ran across the 2014 posting on milsurp.com I decided to take a chance. Will be an interesting discussion. Thanks for the feedback and picture.

 

Web slings of the 1960's were packaged in plastic and the poor quality nylon slings that came out in 1969 were packaged in brown paper, so I don't believe the plastic bag packaging of this sling is incorrect. I view it as original. Additionally, the markings on the brow paper packaging of the M1907 sling indicate to me it is a re-pack, not the original packaging. Just my 2¢ .....

 

I suspect that sling is legit.

My similar sling cane out of an old plastic bag with a faded and deteriorating label inside the bag that was likely from the original paper packaging that had been replaced with a sealed plastic bag. The paper label is dated 7/66, and since paper is a poor long-term storage material except for very small items, my guess is plastic may have been used by some subcontractors in the 1960s and certainly re-packs in the 1970s, etc.(I taped up the writing on the paper label as it was disintegrating from age).

 

I suspect that sling is legit.

My similar sling cane out of an old plastic bag with what I suspect was the faded and deteriorating paper bag used as the label inside the bag. The label is dated 7/66, and since paper is a poor long-term storage material except for very small items, my guess is plastic was used by some subcontractors in the 1960s and certainly re-packs in the 1970s, etc.(I taped up the writing on the paper label as it was dry and disintegrating from age).
View attachment 454407

Does your sling have the MRT and date marking?

 

Nope. (Old label has the correct NSN though).

 

About a year ago, Pipestone IIRC. sold ten NM slings, all original, some were dated and some were not. A member here Shomway had his new in wrapper in paper and mine were in plastic. Mine were dated and his were not.

I studied the two I received and Shomway’s all USGI! And both are worth way more than what we paid, which was $50 dollars. Mine are dated 10-69, value around $200 in my opinion, don’t believe me find new old stock NM slings stamped MRT 10-69!

If you will take much better pictures, of both front and back, of stitching and the keepers it will help me determine if yours is USGI.

MORE THAN A HOBB, A PASSION!
REN

 

Yea, still kicking myself for not seeing that thread for those NOS 1969 dated slings at a nice price. I almost got a 1970 sling in eBay but lost the action by like $5...so the hunt continues.

One thing I have noted about USGI slings is that the original design called for both sling keepers to have a overlap/partial double-layer of leather where they are stitched together. This requires extra material but adds greatly in strength. My oldest sling is dated 1917, and the original keepers have that overlapped/double layered sling keeper construction, as seen here.

Why is this important? Most contemporary manufactures will not use two layers of leather for the sling keepers as it requires extra leather/raw material, and you can see here the difference between a cheap leather keeper and a USGI-spec keeper. Turner Saddlery (& others) goes the extra mile with stitching and makes the keeper wider than the original drawing (far left). The 2nd from the left is a typical USGI sling keeper, two layers with a fairly thick material for stitching. The sling keepers on the right and at the bottom are not USGI-spec keepers, with very thin stitching material as well.

Lastly, I think there has likely been dozen subcontractors (or so) who have made M1907 slings for the US gov't going back to WWI, and I have seen small nuanced differences in the rivets on the frogs, and the stitching used on sling keepers during the 20th-21st century. The contemporary NSN was created in 1963, and has not changed since then...(The most commonly dated slings w/ MRT dates seem to be 1986 - I think the contractor was 'G. Cathent Inc.' Pretty sure they made a boat load of them that year. I have 3 or 4 from 1986.)

Anyhow, I'm quite confident that The Once-Ler has a NOS USGI sling based on the bag and the sling's construction/keepers, and as others have noted, the MRT w/ date stamping was not always used (although such slings marked w/ dates typically cost more money). My 2cts.

 

Yea, still kicking myself for not seeing that thread for those NOS 1969 dated slings at a nice price. I almost got a 1970 sling in eBay but lost the action by like $5...so the hunt continues.

One thing I have noted about USGI slings is that the original design called for both sling keepers to have a double-layer of leather where they are stitched together. This requires extra material but adds greatly in strength. My oldest sling is dated 1917, and the original keepers have that double layered sling keeper construction, as seen here.

View attachment 454426
Why is this important? Most contemporary manufactures will not use two layers of leather for the sling keepers as it requires extra leather/raw material, and you can see here the difference between a cheap leather keeper and a USGI-spec keeper. Turner Saddlery (& others) goes the extra mile with stitching and makes the keeper wider than the original drawing (far left). The 2nd from the left is a typical USGI sling keeper, two layers with a fairly thick material for stitching. The sling keepers on the right and at the bottom are not USGI-spec keepers, with very thin stitching material as well.
View attachment 454427
Lastly, I think there has likely been dozen subcontractors (or so) who have made M1907 slings for the US gov't going back to WWI, and I have seen small nuanced differences in the rivets on the frogs, and the stitching used on sling keepers during the 20th-21st century. The contemporary NSN was created in 1963, and has not changed since then...(The most commonly dated slings w/ MRT dates seem to be 1986 - I think the contractor was 'G. Cathent Inc.' Pretty sure they made a boat load of them that year. I have 3 or 4 from 1986.)
View attachment 454429
Anyhow, I'm quite confident that The Once-Ler has a NOS USGI sling based on the bag and the sling's construction/keepers, and as others have noted, the MRT w/ date stamping was not always used (although such slings marked w/ dates typically cost more money). My 2cts.

Yea, still kicking myself for not seeing that thread for those NOS 1969 dated slings at a nice price. I almost got a 1970 sling in eBay but lost the action by like $5...so the hunt continues.

One thing I have noted about USGI slings is that the original design called for both sling keepers to have a double-layer of leather where they are stitched together. This requires extra material but adds greatly in strength. My oldest sling is dated 1917, and the original keepers have that double layered sling keeper construction, as seen here.

View attachment 454426
Why is this important? Most contemporary manufactures will not use two layers of leather for the sling keepers as it requires extra leather/raw material, and you can see here the difference between a cheap leather keeper and a USGI-spec keeper. Turner Saddlery (& others) goes the extra mile with stitching and makes the keeper wider than the original drawing (far left). The 2nd from the left is a typical USGI sling keeper, two layers with a fairly thick material for stitching. The sling keepers on the right and at the bottom are not USGI-spec keepers, with very thin stitching material as well.
View attachment 454427
Lastly, I think there has likely been dozen subcontractors (or so) who have made M1907 slings for the US gov't going back to WWI, and I have seen small nuanced differences in the rivets on the frogs, and the stitching used on sling keepers during the 20th-21st century. The contemporary NSN was created in 1963, and has not changed since then...(The most commonly dated slings w/ MRT dates seem to be 1986 - I think the contractor was 'G. Cathent Inc.' Pretty sure they made a boat load of them that year. I have 3 or 4 from 1986.)
View attachment 454429
Anyhow, I'm quite confident that The Once-Ler has a NOS USGI sling based on the bag and the sling's construction/keepers, and as others have noted, the MRT w/ date stamping was not always used (although such slings marked w/ dates typically cost more money). My 2cts.

It has been my experience, that nothing is always and never, with that being said there is usually, and common characteristics.
I having been collecting American Civil War Relics for a very long time and in that hobby I developed good friendships with folks with far deeper pockets than I. I always wanted to collect uniforms but found quickly on my income, well it just wasn't realistic. That doesn't mean the interested wasn't there just not the money. These collectors were always happy to show me their collections and explain in detail what they look for when trying to determine if a uniform was original or a reproduction. Stitching and the material used were the first things that got studied. The person selling the article and where the article came from and its condition were also factors used in determining whether it was original or a forgery.

So when I attempt to determine if an item is authentic or a forgery, I approach it the same way I determine Civil War Relics are legit.

The NM 1907 leather sling the OP presented here appears to be original issue, but without better pictures and more of them we are guessing based on what we think we see. That is not science, that is guess work.

William, you were correct to hone in on the keeper, they were stitched with the leather over lapping, though I wouldn't say two layers because that's misleading, over lap would be a better description.

The keepers you have pictured with the whole punched through the leather and then sewn together are suspect. I don't believe they are USGI items, that alone would keep me from adding them to my collection. I never do, well its close, so in it goes!

The 1907 slings from the 60s era are different and far better than the later 80s and 90s we so often encounter today. The way the leather was cured and finished is also a tail tail sign and easily distinguished from later 1907 slings of the 80s and 90s.

The "MRT" and "DATE" or the lack of does not indicate genuine or reproduction, as original examples exist with and without these features. The stampings were not uniform or constant between manufactures and thus cannot be relied upon to determine originality.

OP, if you still have my email address, please send me clear detailed pictures of your 1907 sling and I will tell you definitively whether it is legit or not.

MORE THAN A HOBBY, A PASSION!
REN

 

Here is another. M1907 Leather Sling M1 Garand 1903 US Genuine Military NOS Unissued 7.62MM 308

On ebay. MRT marked 65.00

 

The keepers you have pictured with the whole punched through the leather and then sewn together are suspect. I don't believe they are USGI items, that alone would keep me from adding them to my collection. I never do, well its close, so in it goes!

If you are redefining the sling in the 2nd picture with white stitching in the keepers, I agree it’s suspect. What’s interesting about those slings is that were all ordered by Remington Defense for use with their M24R rifles about 10 years ago. The bag said ‘Made in Canada’ too, but I don’t recall if it had an NSN label, I don’t think so. Here’s what it came out of:

…so I kept it since it was part of those collectible rifles, but on my rifle I installed a 2007 dated USGI sling, which i think looks better.

 

 

I had an MRT sling twice, first and last time. I used it once and it got wet, stretching, rendering it completely useless. You could measure the width differential (easily) from the original width to the stretched width. I got a Turner and that got wet but is still going strong after about 20 years. Even better are the Ron Brown slings (about three of them) I got after that.

Danny

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

 

Original packaging always has the contract number, as on the plastic wrapper. Repacks do not have the contract number, as on the sling with the paper wrapper.

Not all USGI web slings were Mildew Resistance Treated. Not sure about leather. I don't think it was all that good.

 

The rest of the drawing set:

 

And the rivet:

 

A few of my "in wrap" slings. Have to thro this out there. I had spoken to the member who was selling the leather slings here via fone chats. He said his source got them back in the day at the Camp Perry national matches when he competed. So, I have to wonder if the 64s and 69s shown here without a contract number (folks who bought and opened the 64 dates) did not find the MRT and date, maybe they were made by government contractors specifically for the Camp Perry national matches and there was no need for the mildew resistant treatment?

 

Random Guy, the Cathent labels are Cathey Enterprises and cage code is 8K916. At one time they also made the T-4 leather cheek pads and is where Richard Turner purchased his leather cheek pad dies from. Pic of dies curtesy of Richard Turner.

Cage Code

Company Name

Address 1

Address 2

PO Box

City

State

Zip

Country

Date Established

Last Updated

Former Name 1

Former Name 2

Status

Type

Business Size

Woman Owned (Y/N)?

8K916

CATHEY ENTERPRISES INC

3423 MILAM DR

2202

BROWNWOOD

TX

76801-6951

UNITED STATES

31-MAR-1982

31-JUL-2007

FORMERLY IN CHULA VISTA CA

A

F

A

N

 

The ones I remember from way back that I mentioned in my 1st reply looked like the one in the top right in the 1st pic. Rectangle package (with contract number) vs the square (no contract number) package.
The square 64 dated ones came from our member. Ones opened by folks here did not have the MRT marking.
The 69 dated ones also came from our member and I believe are MRT 68 dated.

 

The two I received have the MRT and are dated 10-69

To say I am pleased would not be accurate, more like ecstatic!

Shomway’s did not have any markings, but other than that were carbon copies of mine. I am 100 percent confident that they are USGI issued 1907 slings.


MORE THAN A HOBBY, A PASSION!
REN

 

Way back in the day, I remember Cathey Enterprises advertising that they made the "Dirty Harry" shoulder holster.

 

Yep, also made holsters for the M1911 series pistols for the military, all sorts of leather goods.

 

I believe it was member boltrash who had opened a 64 dated one and ended up putting it up for sale and his did not have the MRT/date.

 

Chris,

When you get your sling study it closely and compare it to the pictures I have provided here. It should be exactly like mine. Shomway's sling was dated 1965 on the packaging and when opened found to not have anything stamped on it, but it was spot on exactly like the two I have.
These are good quality pictures and will give you something to go on.

MORE THAN A HOBBY, A PASSION!
REN

 

Actually ren, your statement 'It should be exactly like mine." is not correct unless you are specifically talking the 1969 ones.. View my pic of the return stitching. Just these in this pic, top is a WW2, next a MRT-62, next 2 are MRT-64 dates. I have no clue why the 69 you have and the 2 I have don't have it, my 74 dated and all my 80s and 90s do have it. I would have to inspect all my WW1 and WW2 ones, dated and undated to see if they all have the return stitching. But from memory they do.

 

PS, the 2 examples posted by The Once-Ler in the OP both have it.
Below:
1st 2 pics are a MRT10-57, 3rd and 4th are a MRT 4-63. Of interest to note on this 4-63 sling. The stitching is one continuous stitch. Instead of 2 seperate "lines" with the return on each,,, this one goes up one side, across the sling and down the other. IIRC, some of my WW1/WW2 ones may have that.
My "gut" feeling still says that the MRT/dated leather slings were for the military, and like the case of the ones our member was selling in the wrap that don't have the MRT/date, were made (prolly same contractors as the GI ones) for the national matches and sold to anyone (military and civilian) for NM use. Just my 2 pennies.

 

And here is the stitching from my opened 10-65 package. Looks like another variation and now makes me question if it's legit when compared to the ones pictured here. I sold this sling so I can't add any more pics of this stitching. Still have one unopened 10-65 that will leave sealed.

 

And here is the stitching from my opened 10-65 package. Looks like another variation and now makes me question if it's legit when compared to the ones pictured here. I sold this sling so I can't add any more pics of this stitching. Still have one unopened 10-65 that will leave sealed.

Please refresh my memory, this one was in a 65 dated paper wrap, but the sling itself was not marked??