[m1sniper]

A few of my "in wrap" slings. Have to thro this out there. I had spoken to the member who was selling the leather slings here via fone chats. He said his source got them back in the day at the Camp Perry national matches when he competed. So, I have to wonder if the 64s and 69s shown here without a contract number (folks who bought and opened the 64 dates) did not find the MRT and date, maybe they were made by government contractors specifically for the Camp Perry national matches and there was no need for the mildew resistant treatment?

 

[m1sniper]

Random Guy, the Cathent labels are Cathey Enterprises and cage code is 8K916. At one time they also made the T-4 leather cheek pads and is where Richard Turner purchased his leather cheek pad dies from. Pic of dies curtesy of Richard Turner.

Cage Code

Company Name

Address 1

Address 2

PO Box

City

State

Zip

Country

Date Established

Last Updated

Former Name 1

Former Name 2

Status

Type

Business Size

Woman Owned (Y/N)?

8K916

CATHEY ENTERPRISES INC

3423 MILAM DR

2202

BROWNWOOD

TX

76801-6951

UNITED STATES

31-MAR-1982

31-JUL-2007

FORMERLY IN CHULA VISTA CA

A

F

A

N

 

[m1sniper]

The ones I remember from way back that I mentioned in my 1st reply looked like the one in the top right in the 1st pic. Rectangle package (with contract number) vs the square (no contract number) package.
The square 64 dated ones came from our member. Ones opened by folks here did not have the MRT marking.
The 69 dated ones also came from our member and I believe are MRT 68 dated.

 

[KurtC]

Way back in the day, I remember Cathey Enterprises advertising that they made the "Dirty Harry" shoulder holster.

 

[m1sniper]

Yep, also made holsters for the M1911 series pistols for the military, all sorts of leather goods.

 

[XM25Ren]

The ones I remember from way back that I mentioned in my 1st reply looked like the one in the top right in the 1st pic. Rectangle package (with contract number) vs the square (no contract number) package.
The square 64 dated ones came from our member. Ones opened by folks here did not have the MRT marking.
The 69 dated ones also came from our member and I believe are MRT 68 dated.

The two I received have the MRT and are dated 10-69

To say I am pleased would not be accurate, more like ecstatic!

Shomway’s did not have any markings, but other than that were carbon copies of mine. I am 100 percent confident that they are USGI issued 1907 slings.


MORE THAN A HOBBY, A PASSION!
REN

 

[m1sniper]

I believe it was member boltrash who had opened a 64 dated one and ended up putting it up for sale and his did not have the MRT/date.

 

[XM25Ren]

Chris,

When you get your sling study it closely and compare it to the pictures I have provided here. It should be exactly like mine. Shomway's sling was dated 1965 on the packaging and when opened found to not have anything stamped on it, but it was spot on exactly like the two I have.
These are good quality pictures and will give you something to go on.

MORE THAN A HOBBY, A PASSION!
REN

 

[m1sniper]

Actually ren, your statement 'It should be exactly like mine." is not correct unless you are specifically talking the 1969 ones.. View my pic of the return stitching. Just these in this pic, top is a WW2, next a MRT-62, next 2 are MRT-64 dates. I have no clue why the 69 you have and the 2 I have don't have it, my 74 dated and all my 80s and 90s do have it. I would have to inspect all my WW1 and WW2 ones, dated and undated to see if they all have the return stitching. But from memory they do.

 

[m1sniper]

PS, the 2 examples posted by The Once-Ler in the OP both have it.
Below:
1st 2 pics are a MRT10-57, 3rd and 4th are a MRT 4-63. Of interest to note on this 4-63 sling. The stitching is one continuous stitch. Instead of 2 seperate "lines" with the return on each,,, this one goes up one side, across the sling and down the other. IIRC, some of my WW1/WW2 ones may have that.
My "gut" feeling still says that the MRT/dated leather slings were for the military, and like the case of the ones our member was selling in the wrap that don't have the MRT/date, were made (prolly same contractors as the GI ones) for the national matches and sold to anyone (military and civilian) for NM use. Just my 2 pennies.

 

[Shomway]

And here is the stitching from my opened 10-65 package. Looks like another variation and now makes me question if it's legit when compared to the ones pictured here. I sold this sling so I can't add any more pics of this stitching. Still have one unopened 10-65 that will leave sealed.

 

[m1sniper]

And here is the stitching from my opened 10-65 package. Looks like another variation and now makes me question if it's legit when compared to the ones pictured here. I sold this sling so I can't add any more pics of this stitching. Still have one unopened 10-65 that will leave sealed.

Please refresh my memory, this one was in a 65 dated paper wrap, but the sling itself was not marked??

 

[Random Guy]

I would have to inspect all my WW1 and WW2 ones, dated and undated to see if they all have the return stitching. But from memory they do

Hmm, I note that the 1950 drawing does shows the return the stitching:

 

[m1sniper]

BTW, per Uncle Bill, the "mildew resistant treatment, MRT" began sometime in 1945.

Shomway, that sling posted does have indicators I like to see. The holes are not perfect circles, they look to be oblong, has the return stitching. The fact that it was one continuous stitch is ok by me. One thing I look for in slings is the length of the folded over section. That one looks a tad short. While hard to tell for sure from the pic, the metal D ring looks pretty heavy weight as opposed to repro slings that are generally no where near the correct thickness (diameter).So, if that sling had no MRT/date stamped in it, my best guess is that it WAS made by one of the GI contractors but for sell at national matches where the MRT treatment was not necessary. I just can't prove that statement "beyond a shadow of doubt"..

 

[Shomway]

Please refresh my memory, this one was in a 65 dated paper wrap, but the sling itself was not marked??

Correct! You had mentioned to me that you thought the 65 dated packages were not MRT or dated marked. So I opened one and you were right......

 

[lysander]

Guys, all of the slings shown are legit USGI slings. Don't get all upset that the stitching isn't exactly the same. The variation has to do with what kind of sewing machines are used at the factory.

If you look at drawing 7122387, it shows the stitching forms a "U", this is the backstitch required per note 2. All of the slings shown on this page, and all of the slings that you can see this stitch line in this thread all show this backstitch. There is some variation in the the horizontal separation of the backstitch from the main stitch line. The ones shown by XN25Ren in post #28 just have the backstitch on top of the main stitch line.

Why the variation?

If you look at a standard home sewing machine they all have a little lever that when you depress it the cloth starts to feed the reverse direction, this is known as the backstitch lever. Not all industrial sewing machines have this capability as reversing some leather 1/4 inch thick runs the risk of breaking needles. So, to backstitch the work must be spun 180 degrees. Unlike cloth, you cannot spin leather with the needle through the work so you must lift the needle, spin the work and resume stitching.

Generally speaking, in sewn items of equipment you will see a number of minor variations in stitch-work to accommodate manufacturer's best practices. The last example with single line of stitching rather than two would be a perfectly acceptable variation, and still considered to be conforming to the drawing.

The main points of the drawing are that the stitching start at or near the bottom of the overlap, continue to the top, to the metal loop, and reverse. As long as these points are made, the iutem conforms to the drawing.

NOTE: there is no dimension of the horizontal separation of the main and back- stitch lines, nor a minimum length of the backstitch.

 

[lysander]

Hmm, I note that the 1950 drawing does shows the return the stitching:

View attachment 454796

Careful, that is not a 1950 drawing, it is a 1986 drawing (Rev F, dtd 860302).

 

[m1sniper]

Guys, all of the slings shown are legit USGI slings. Don't get all upset that the stitching isn't exactly the same. The variation has to do with what kind of sewing machines are used at the factory.

If you look at drawing 7122387, it shows the stitching forms a "U", this is the backstitch required per note 2. All of the slings shown on this page, and all of the slings that you can see this stitch line in this thread all show this backstitch. There is some variation in the the horizontal separation of the backstitch from the main stitch line. The ones shown by XN25Ren in post #28 just have the backstitch on top of the main stitch line.

Why the variation?

If you look at a standard home sewing machine they all have a little lever that when you depress it the cloth starts to feed the reverse direction, this is known as the backstitch lever. Not all industrial sewing machines have this capability as reversing some leather 1/4 inch thick runs the risk of breaking needles. So, to backstitch the work must be spun 180 degrees. Unlike cloth, you cannot spin leather with the needle through the work so you must lift the needle, spin the work and resume stitching.

Generally speaking, in sewn items of equipment you will see a number of minor variations in stitch-work to accommodate manufacturer's best practices. The last example with single line of stitching rather than two would be a perfectly acceptable variation, and still considered to be conforming to the drawing.

The main points of the drawing are that the stitching start at or near the bottom of the overlap, continue to the top, to the metal loop, and reverse. As long as these points are made, the iutem conforms to the drawing.

NOTE: there is no dimension of the horizontal separation of the main and back- stitch lines, nor a minimum length of the backstitch.

 

[Random Guy]

Generally speaking, in sewn items of equipment you will see a number of minor variations in stitch-work to accommodate manufacturer's best practices.

Yep, I agree. As noted previously there are small differences in the stitching that I presume was based on different machines/set-ups used by the various contractors over roughly 100 years of manufacturing leather slings for Uncle Sam.

 

[m1sniper]

Beautiful explanations Lysander,, thanks for that.
Then my only 2 Qs would be these: Drawing shows the 2" folded over section, would anything else bother you?
The slings in wrap with no contract number, and no MRT/date stamped into the leather,,, supplied to the military for general military use??, or as my gut says, available for sale at NMs?? or both?

BTW,, thanks again very much for posting all the drawings re: the slings.. Saved them to my 07 sling folder.