You are absolutely right.
I'm old enough to remember a time when a gunsmith apologized profusely for letting a questionable part pass by.
But the professional integrity and pride of the salespeople are declining even faster than the quality standards.
The part is cracked or bent due to a poorly controlled manufacturing process: no problem, since it works! Not a word of consideration for the aggrieved customer, no commercial gesture of compensation, welcome to the twenty-first century.

 

Vous avez tout à fait raison.
Je suis assez vieux pour me souvenir d’une époque où un armurier s’excusait abondamment d’avoir laissé passer une pièce douteuse.
Mais l’intégrité professionnelle et la fierté des vendeurs déclinent encore plus vite que les normes de qualité.
La pièce est fissurée ou pliée à cause d'un processus de fabrication mal contrôlé : aucun problème, puisqu'elle fonctionne ! Pas un mot de considération pour le client lésé, pas de geste commercial de compensation, bienvenue au XXIe siècle.

Dumbass frog bot!

 

I had a front band crack during this process and the gunsmith I used did replace it. Though mine appears to be in a different area than yours. Good luck.

 

It’s hard to tell from the photos but I don’t see any shiny metal in that crack leading me to think that it occurred before parkerizing. Did you send the parts to him or did he supply the front band? If the part was manufactured that way, it probably should have been rejected upon inspection, imo but other than being a little unsightly, I don’t think you’ll have any problems with it.

 

I sent the parts in. And no, not USGI. I have taken this rifle apart enough where had i noticed it, I would have filed a warranty claim with SA before sending it in to get unitized. Sigh. I should have just bought a unitized gas cylinder from Fulton or a NM gas cylinder from SA.

Yea, I figure it wouldn't cause any issues as the actual unitization appears to have been done properly. Although the band does appear to be slightly off center, maybe by a few thousands and is now harder to get on/off the barrel without a bit of love from a rubber hammer.

We'll see, going to go shooting this weekend. If there are issues then, well, it'll have to sit there n be a safe queen until I get another gas cylinder. Only recourse is to leave a bad review and hope enough people see it to make an impact. Sad people are like this.

 

It’s definitely cracked and was painted over after all the work was done to it. Ya, you can use it as is, but I would not be a happy camper myself after receiving it back from whomever did the work. Would I pay for it to be shipped back to him, nope, would I want him to replace it, yuppers, but would I really want to send it back to him, probably not.

 

It'll work, but it is a (minor) cosmetic flaw that will drive some people with OCD up the wall.....

 

If that front band is USGI, it did not leave the factory that way.
IMHO it was cracked while someone was trying to bend the handguard tabs without proper annealing, or using the proper technique to bend the tabs.

 

I had a bunch done years ago. The gunsmith told me to send extra bands because they crack easily during modification

 

Will it work? Yeah.

Is it ugly? Most definitely.

It will work just fine for the way you have your rifle set up; but, If It were mine, I wouldn't accept it. I'm picky, and I'm especially picky when I'm paying for something I can't do myself.

 

It should not have been sent out like that.

 

Did he crack it during the unitizing process, or did you send him a cracked part?

 

Why would I make an issue of the front band being cracked if I sent in the part as such? Obviously he cracked it during the unitization process.

 

I seem to remember the standard tabs are just bent 90 degrees, and this would interfere with the screw(s) location so they need to be bent upward? The band is hardened so they need to be annealed. So I can see how the person twisted the whole band in doing this. I would send it back on aesthetics alone. That parts looks terrible, functional as it may be. Do you know if they quench or harden these bands after they screw and glue them and bend the tabs?

 

The tabs are bent upwards so that they can't vibrate against the stock ferrule.

It's SOP on welded assemblies as well.

 

At this point I have to ask...

What possessed you to have SAI commercial parts screwed and glued?

Usually folks go through that trouble and expense with USGI parts.

 

What possessed you to have SAI commercial parts screwed and glued?

That is a valid question...Could not have been any cheaper than just buying it from Midway or Brownells.

 

That is a valid question...Could not have been any cheaper than just buying it from Midway or Brownells.

At this point I have to ask...

What possessed you to have SAI commercial parts screwed and glued?

Usually folks go through that trouble and expense with USGI parts.

Tbh, I know unitizing is generally only beneficial if done in conjunction with glass bedding (did not know it was also generally worth the trouble with USGI parts), but simply bc i wanted to see if I could get a bit more accuracy, and/or less flyers.

Getting a unitized GC from Fulton or SA would have been closer to $200 after taxes. So, figured this gunsmith was reputable (allegedly), and costs after shipping was worth it to try. But now I feel i should have left it alone. Sigh.

 

I had a bunch done years ago. The gunsmith told me to send extra bands because they crack easily during modification

You really should anneal the front band lips before trying to bend the lips. According to the drawing they are supposed to hard, depending on the material some can be as hard as files.

Pack the bottom in sand to keep to cool and get the lips hot as fast as possible.

 

The upper tab is twisted more than just a little. Ugly.

 

Nothing wrong with welded, many of mine are. If welded properly, they should never break from normal use. Screwed-n-glued is a more guaranteed secure method, a consideration if competing, and the preciseness of it has a certain appeal. If the band tabs were bent first (don’t know how else you would do it) the smith should have selected another front band.

 

Yes I’ve seen that thx

 

Oh, I see now you’re saying they they curl those tabs up to raise them higher as to avoid hitting the feral. That makes sense. I thought they did it to bend them outward to avoid hitting the feral. Thank you.

 

Bending the tabs up also pushes the hand guard up and away from any contact with the stock. These little details all contribute to improved accuracy.
The gas cylinder in question could be fixed to a degree by simply bending the corner with the crack forward to properly align the band. It won't eliminate the crack, but it's a very small crack and should not grow if the band is straightened out. It appears that the band may have suffered an impack which bent it back resulting in the crack. Just my WAG.

 

ted: you are more correct than the other experts. the gas cylinder was sent to me by this gentleman.
that is his front band that crack was in there from day one.
I have seen lots of aftermarket front bands with this flaw over the years and even a few gi ones.
whomever did the bands bending and annealing on that other gas cylinder was a not a smith.
the crack I have seen mostly on front bands is in the one spot that happens when someone/gun owner has tried to bend the tangs up without properly annealing, then sends it to me or you without letting us know in advance that they had attempted to perform the bending seen in that other photo then bent it back straight and sent it and the gas cylinder and parts for the modification.
only problem is it induced stressors not normally seen by us who have older eyes and when we anneal the tabs the metal has already been stressed out so it cracks on the loop area of the tang.
admit sometimes I miss this crack and it is an embarrassment I strive to do the best job but sometimes I goof. this one as no one is perfect. gene Barnett showed this to me many years ago.
I offered to fix his gas cylinder for nothing which would have included a new gi band for no charge. as a one man band I cant afford return shipping all the time. so this guy who sent this out was way off.
that band so called crack in that area is not a factor in strength of the band but a manufacturing problem in the stamping process. I told him to shoot his rifle and get back with me which he did not. he still has the option of getting the band replaced for no charge he just needs to provide the shipping. jeff

 

ted: you are more correct than the other experts. the gas cylinder was sent to me by this gentleman.
that is his front band that crack was in there from day one.
I have seen lots of aftermarket front bands with this flaw over the years and even a few gi ones.
whomever did the bands bending and annealing on that other gas cylinder was a not a smith.
the crack I have seen mostly on front bands is in the one spot that happens when someone/gun owner has tried to bend the tangs up without properly annealing, then sends it to me or you without letting us know in advance that they had attempted to perform the bending seen in that other photo then bent it back straight and sent it and the gas cylinder and parts for the modification.
only problem is it induced stressors not normally seen by us who have older eyes and when we anneal the tabs the metal has already been stressed out so it cracks on the loop area of the tang.
admit sometimes I miss this crack and it is an embarrassment I strive to do the best job but sometimes I goof. this one as no one is perfect. gene Barnett showed this to me many years ago.
I offered to fix his gas cylinder for nothing which would have included a new gi band for no charge. as a one man band I cant afford return shipping all the time. so this guy who sent this out was way off.
that band so called crack in that area is not a factor in strength of the band but a manufacturing problem in the stamping process. I told him to shoot his rifle and get back with me which he did not. he still has the option of getting the band replaced for no charge he just needs to provide the shipping. jeff

Jeff,
Thanks for clarifying this situation for everyone

 

First it seemed like a lot of complaining, but now....

 

Have to agree with you on this one, OP surely got the pot stirred up on this thread and the other thread he has on this very same topic.

 

I've known hueygunner for over 20 years and he has an excellent following. He does good work and offers a variety of services. Many don't realize just how much actual labor goes into AMU unitizing or why it costs so much more than welding. No one does it better than me (ha-ha), but hueygunner runs a close second. Sometimes things happen that sort of fall through the cracks, but the professionals will always take care of their customers and make things right.

 

ted:
as we say you are the best.
I am a close second you are correct to point out that it takes a ton of work to do this stuff.
annealing pins annealing front bands drilling on center and getting this to turn out right so the guys we deal with get the best work possible. most do not realize the amount of work that goes into getting this right so shooting does not suffer.

 

My unitized systems are welded, the way the Commandant wanted. I’ve heard of the welds cracking but mine haven’t so far. To each his own. Both methods achieve the same result and I really think there are virtues to both

 

Jeff,
Thanks for clarifying this situation for everyone

ted: you are more correct than the other experts. the gas cylinder was sent to me by this gentleman.
that is his front band that crack was in there from day one.
I have seen lots of aftermarket front bands with this flaw over the years and even a few gi ones.
whomever did the bands bending and annealing on that other gas cylinder was a not a smith.
the crack I have seen mostly on front bands is in the one spot that happens when someone/gun owner has tried to bend the tangs up without properly annealing, then sends it to me or you without letting us know in advance that they had attempted to perform the bending seen in that other photo then bent it back straight and sent it and the gas cylinder and parts for the modification.
only problem is it induced stressors not normally seen by us who have older eyes and when we anneal the tabs the metal has already been stressed out so it cracks on the loop area of the tang.
admit sometimes I miss this crack and it is an embarrassment I strive to do the best job but sometimes I goof. this one as no one is perfect. gene Barnett showed this to me many years ago.
I offered to fix his gas cylinder for nothing which would have included a new gi band for no charge. as a one man band I cant afford return shipping all the time. so this guy who sent this out was way off.
that band so called crack in that area is not a factor in strength of the band but a manufacturing problem in the stamping process. I told him to shoot his rifle and get back with me which he did not. he still has the option of getting the band replaced for no charge he just needs to provide the shipping. jeff

First, if i understood you correctly, that crack was not there from day one and I never attempted to modify the front band. Still, I'm not interested in engaging in a he said / she said type of argument. You can say what you will.

Second, yes. You offered to fix the issue for free if I paid for shipping. However, it would be approx. $15 to send it to you, and you charge $24 to ship it back (albeit per your over-the-top package protection). Your website stated $91.50 for the service. But after contacting you, you stated that the prices changed and now would cost $110 which included shipping. Awesome, no problem.

Third, I never mentioned you or provided any details implicating you because I wanted to be sure whether or not I was in the wrong. If I was, and things like this happen bc say im using SA parts, then oh well and no need to speak of it anymore. If the overall opinion was that your workmanship was subpar, and it could lead to practical issues, then why should I have to pay shipping for a defect you failed to address. If it was your responsibility, you should replace it for free and pay for the shipping; to do so is not doing me a favor.

I haven't contacted you or followed up because I was still doing my due diligence in researching the issue. Regardless, as you want to address this publicly, I will not take you up on your offer to have this remedied.

 

nonsense:
your loss is foolish totally . my over the top method of a box within a box was specifically for your protection.
years ago USPS did some real bad damage to one of my customers gas cylinders the box looked like it got run over by a tank.
that box was a priority small.
after giving that person a new gas cylinder for no charge, I changed my method to a box within a box. your due diligence was a waste of good talent.
you already know how stupid the USPS is by sending your gas cylinder to Hawaii instead of your home . so you are over the top ridiculous . jeff

 

This thread has been very interesting, to say the least. I looked at two different front bands yesterday, neither one of them are NM modified, they are just plain jane front bands, one is USGI and the other is current production.
They both have a crack in the area where the OP’s front band is cracked at. So OP, you very well could have sent a cracked front band to Jeff and not even know it was cracked.

I will now be checking out in detail, any front bands that I may have converted into NM configuration.
Hope this helps others before they blow a head gasket with their front band NM modifications.

First three pics are the USGI band, second set of three pics is the current production band.

Current production;

 

Crank, I had to replace one of the front bands on the gas cylinders that I unitized (weld) for you. I probably didn’t have it quite hot enough and the wing cracked. No biggie, it happens, it’s not an expensive part and I keep extras on hand for that exact reason. It should be remembered that these bands were not originally designed for what we do to them.