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Trimmers: WFT vs. Giraud TriWay

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Discussion starter · #22 ·
CHARLIED308 said:
Does the World's Finest Trimmer chamfer the inside of the case mouth?
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I talked with Little Crow Gunworks this morning. Neither the original WFT or the WFT-2 chamfers or deburrs the case mouth.

The Giraud Tri-Way trims, chamfers inside of case mouth 15 degrees, and deburrs outside 45 degrees.

The only question I have left is whether I should (a) use my drill press which has the advantage of being able to set a specific RPM and being extremely stable, (b) use one of my drills, or (c) find a dedicated motor. Giraud's instructions seem to indicate that it's better to have the tool mouth either facing up or angled upward but I may not be reading that right.

Giraud instructions:
http://www.giraudtool.com/Giraud Tri Way Trimmer.pdf
paragraph at bottom of page 3 talks about how the tool should be mounted.
 
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#24 ·
TheTinMan said:
I talked with Little Crow Gunworks this morning. Neither the original WFT or the WFT-2 chamfers or deburrs the case mouth.

The Giraud Tri-Way trims, chamfers inside of case mouth 15 degrees, and deburrs outside 45 degrees.

The only question I have left is whether I should (a) use my drill press which has the advantage of being able to set a specific RPM and being extremely stable, (b) use one of my drills, or (c) find a dedicated motor. Giraud's instructions seem to indicate that it's better to have the tool mouth either facing up or angled upward but I may not be reading that right.

Giraud instructions:
http://www.giraudtool.com/Giraud Tri Way Trimmer.pdf
paragraph at bottom of page 3 talks about how the tool should be mounted.
Click to expand...
There is no such positional restriction on the WFT. I have my trimmer mounted in a battery drill which I hold more or less horizontal over a trash can. I use my left hand to push the case into the opening.

Since my cases still have lube, I have to clean out the guide assembly from time to time.

RPM is your friend with this operation. I'm not sure a drill press is the way to go unless you can get it running pretty fast. In any event, a drill press would be upside down for the Giraud unit.

Maybe over the winter I will get my resizing operation working consistently on my Dillon 650. In that case, I can trim about 1400 cases per hour but I'll still have to debur and chamfer when I clean out the primer pocket. When I first set up the Dillon for .308, I thought I wasn't getting consistent headspacing. I was getting a lot of case head separation. So, naturally, I blamed my 650 process. Well, I have the same problem when using machine gun brass even when I reload on my Redding T7 and check the shoulder location with a dial indicator (Redding Instant Indicator). It's a brass problem, not a process problem.
 
#25 ·
I had a giraurd triway for 308 and 223. I also had the WFT in 223. I ended up winnning a giruard powered trimmer but I have used both so I can make comparisions. The WFT is easy to set up and is quick. The guirard was fairly easy to set up as well. I will say that using the triway was a bit tricky at first because I was using it in a battery powered drill. When cutting, deburring, and chamfering at slower speeds (18v Bosch set on high) I would get cases ripped out of my hand because of the torque and the fact that all 3 actions were happening at once. So what I learned is to use a Mikita corded drill set on the fastest speed using cloth/rubber gardening gloves to hold the cases. Once I started using that set up I never used the WFT unless I just needed to do a few cases and didn't want to deal with clamping the mikita on my workbench. That being said if you have a corded drill TriWay is the way to go.

Thanks,
Gene
 
#26 ·
TheTinMan said:
Giraud's instructions seem to indicate that it's better to have the tool mouth either facing up or angled upward but I may not be reading that right.
Click to expand...
You are reading it right. I think, though, that Giraud's concern is largely theoretical rather than practical. Their thinking is that if you mount the tool in a drill press or some other machine that orients the opening down, that brass chips can fall out and stick to the surface that the case shoulder contacts, causing irregular trim lengths.

In practice, the tool is a centrifuge that spins the brass chips to the outside (they are contained within the tool by a plastic cover) where they cause no harm. I have only had my TriWay a short time, but I have trimmed a thousand or so cases with my drill press and have had no problems. I love the whole concept of trim plus inside/outside chamfering in one motorized operation. Use the tool once and you'll swear it's paid for itself.

Tim
 
#28 ·
I'm not sure a drill press is the way to go unless you can get it running pretty fast.
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You should only run the speed at around 300 or so RPM.
 
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#29 · (Edited)
rstofer said:
The Giraud instructions also mention potential damage to the bearing. I would assume they use a sealed bearing but I don't really know that.
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Giraud uses sealed bearing, even then keep the shavings cleaned up. Those small shavings could still migrate into the bearings and eventually cause havoc. Years ago I tend to let the shavings accumulate almost halfway up the shield/container till eventually the bearings started making noise. I sent the trimmer to Doug.

Not only did he replace the bearings for free, he also delivered the trimmer at the state match. Along with the free delivery and the free service came the free lecture from Doug on how I should maintain the trimmer.....

FYI, Doug Giraud is a Distinguish Rifleman.
 
#31 ·
Another tip with the TriWay if you are using a battery powered drill is to not start and stop if you can help it. timrb is correct that centrifugal force keeps the shavings off the shell holder while spinning but once you stop the drill the shavings can get onto the shell holder and when you put the next piece of brass in it will trim short. But, at least with me, I could feel something was off when I was trimming that piece and would power down the drill and use a pipe cleaner to knock off any shavings. But overall I was very pleased. Def worth the money.

Thanks,
Gene
 
#32 ·
RAMMAC said:
You should only run the speed at around 300 or so RPM.
Click to expand...
The full Giraud trimmer with the AC motor is probably turning around 850 RPM or so. I am assuming it is a 1750 RPM motor and the timing belt arrangement looks like it will slow the rotation by a factor of 2 or so. Just guessing...

The Dillon trimmer uses a universal motor (115VDC) and although there is no information on the nameplate, I would bet it is turning a few thousand RPM just like any small router.

Surface speed is a good thing. Among other things, the cutter won't tend to gouge. But I will admit, I have never measured the RPM of my Milwaukee battery drill.

I didn't see an RPM limit in either User Manual. I could have missed it...
 
#33 ·
Another thing to consider about the Giraud Tri-Way: The case mouth needs to be fully circular (no dents) because the cutter revolves around it. Since the cutter also chamfers, this should be obvious but I hadn't thought about it.

From time to time I have cases where the mouth isn't perfectly formed - it's dented, out-of-round. I don't use an expander ball on the decapping pin because I am using a Redding bushing style die. It will set the shoulder and try to correct the neck from the outside but it is still possible that the bullet will ultimately round out the mouth.

In the case of an out-of-round case mouth, I would expect truly bizarre results from the Tri-Way that I don't get from the WFT or the Dillon. That's because neither of them try to do the chamfer operation.

The issue only comes up because I don't use the expander ball. For everybody who uses it, there is no issue.

OTOH, if you want the bushing to set the neck diameter then you don't want to drag an expander ball back through the sized neck. And too, there is the issue of the ball dragging on the neck enough to disturb the location of the shoulder datum. Both good reasons for not using the ball.

Here's a picture of the blade:
http://www.giraudtool.com/prod03.htm

You can see how it rotates around the case mouth.

ETA: The Dillon trimmer uses an indexable carbide cutter. The trim die itself is actually a small-base sizing die without a decapping pin or an expander ball. If the die gives acceptable neck tension, great! If not, perhaps the brass needs to cycle through a Redding bush style neck sizing die. I'll have to think about that... Maybe there is a place for the neck die on the toolhead after the trim operation...
 
#38 ·
timrb said:
I have a Giraud Tri-way trimmer and love it. On the other hand, I only load 223 these days, so the question of how much money one wants to spend to trim several different cases is valid. I run mine with a drill press.

Tim
Click to expand...
I have one for my precision .30-06 bolt gun loads and it saves alot of time. I am buying two more soon...
 
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