I was told 3 decades ago that if I wanted to carry in a shoulder holster, it had to be vertical.

Horizontal pretty much violates all the rules of handgun safety.

The muzzle is constantly pointed at things you don't want to shoot. Drawing requires you to pass the muzzle across your arm and possible friendlies. No one wants to be along side you during qualification.

 

All the above I agree with but I don't worry about a condition one 1911 from a safety stand point. As for crossing your body the best advice I can give is don't pull the trigger until you're lined up on the target. The draw back to a hip holster is trying to draw while sitting down, especially buckled in a car seat. A hip holster will give you the fastest draw while standing. A shoulder holster is more comfortable than hanging everything from your waist in my opinion.

 

Duce, I've been using Alessi Bodyguard shoulder holsters for about forty years with a 5" 1911:

https://www.alessigunholsters.com/alessi-holsters-bodyguard-holster-colt-guns/

As you can see it doesn't use a restraining strap, the leather is snapped through the trigger guard. You just pull the gun out to pop the snap. For your Beretta it will have a restraining strap. You will have a faster draw with a horizontal rig than vertical. I hope this helps you!

 

Gents,

I agree with KurtC on this on...go vertical. I do have several horizontal holsters, but have never been comfortable with them...for the very safety reasons he voiced in his post.
The horizontal rigs are popular because of "cool" factor I'm afraid, but for safety and comfort I much prefer the vertical shoulder holster.

Wes

 

Years ago when I worked at a huge gun shop, all the employees wore a pistol-somewhere. We all learned in a hurry a belt holster put the grips of the pistol at the exact same height as the counters, therefore we were constantly beating both the counters AND the grips of our pistols to death. Most of us eventually evolved to a shoulder holster of some sort. We tried everything available at the time (mid to late 70's) and the clear winner was of all things-- a Smith and Wesson Brand vertical shoulder rig. Keep in mind most of us carried 1911 style pistols. I loved mine. Comfortable, secure, and pretty quick to draw.
That was then, and this is now.
I got a hankering to try a shoulder rig (off-duty) a handful of years ago. I started out with an Uncle Mike's that was given to me. That particular model was a horizontal style. 10 minutes into that and I already hated it. I tried another similar rig (and forget the brand) and it was just as useless as the Uncle Mikes.
I am certain there are current shoulder rigs, both vertical AND horizontal that are comfortable and secure. A Beretta 92 isn't that much longer than a full sized 1911, so that issue shouldn't be too great to overcome.
Personally I think a vertical rig is easier to "hide" a full sized pistol, as the length can become troublesome--unless you are a large breasted female or a barrel-chested lumberjack. Now- if you are short, and neither of the above-----you will have problems.

 

I'm with Kurt and Wes. I have carried in a shoulder holster many years and would not think of using anything but a vertical holster. I understand the advantages of a horizontal holster but I consider the safety issue to be beyond compromise.

 

For those of you that use the vertical holsters, do you use a crossover style?

 

I use the Allesi body guard as well but horizontal , crossover. I don’t carry condition 1 so I don’t see it as an issue. I had them put a traditional snap on mine as opposed to what high hat has. It snaps over the hammer.
But if I went to condition 1, I wouldn’t be worrying about horizontal unless it was my normal carry condition. For me, going to condition 1 is a heightened sense of danger driving that decision.

I had them make it for my CZ75B, so it would also hold my 1911, and Bersa ultra compact pro.

 

Horizontal for me. Galco Jackass Rig has excellent retention and thumbbreak for 1911. If you consider the horizontal dangerous because you must sweep your arm to draw, unless you twist your arm to an unnatural position behind you, you also sweep your arm to draw a vertical carry. And, depending on your body shape, with the vertical holster, the weapon may very well be pointed at you all the time.
I'm with High Hat. The safety bit is on me.
Ease and speed of draw and presentation is most important to me assuming the holster is high quality and exhibits proper retention.

 

I have and wear shoulder holsters on a pretty regular basis. I like Galco, I bought my first one when they were still Jack Ass, a Miami Classic for 1911’s back in the early 80’s, I still have it. I have both horizontal and vertical, some guns work better with different style’s. And yes they are all cross over and very comfortable. I also have them for S&W K frames, S&W N frames, S&W M39, FN five seven

 

Had a Galco vertical for one week and tossed it for the horizontal. Never looked back. Funny thing is , after 20 years or more ,its never shot anyone behind me and I’ve never blown my elbow off. Yup sounds dangerous to me. Lol

 

Gents,

It may be silly, but I've NEVER been comfortable with my muzzle pointing at another person(when I didn't want it to). Hence, my preference for vertical shoulder rigs. I'm small and they hide a full size pistol better for me too.
I'm proud to say I've managed to never shoot myself in over 50 years of pistol shooting...no matter what type of holster I use!GI2

I suspect that the majority of our members are more experienced that most as shown by our preferences and comments.

Wes

 

Then there's the issue of reholstering. If you can't do it one handed, without looking, under stress, you've made a bad choice.

It can usually be done with most vertical holsters, but with horizontal. .. I would not want to be the family member standing behind you.

 

Use two hands. GI2 Why would I need to reholster under stress, one handed, without looking? Drawing and presenting with speed, under stress, without looking....sure. But when I'm ready to reholster, I take my time. GI2

 

it all depends on body frame. it's harder to hide a horizontal large pistol on a slight frame.

 

Gentlemen, One of the primary safety rules (and the single most important in my opinion) is to never point a weapon at anything you are unwilling to shoot. The rule doesn't say anything about "except when your finger isn't on the trigger" or "except when the safety is engaged" or "except when it is in a holster". I am reminded of the case of a Marine Corps small arms instructor who shot himself with an M9 pistol while attempting to withdraw it from an M7 shoulder holster. He died from his wound. You can tell me that the root of the problem was that the M9 pistol didn't fit properly in the old M7 holster which was orginally sized for a 1911 pistol but the fact of the matter is that firearms can go off when being withdrawn from holsters. Everyone can do as they see fit but I am a firm believer that just becasue something didn't happen to me before, doesn't mean that it will never happen. Accidentally shooting someone is something I do not want to live with.

 

Everyone can do as they see fit but I am a firm believer that just becasue something didn't happen to me before, doesn't mean that it will never happen. Accidentally shooting someone is something I do not want to live with.

Absolutely. You must be proficient with your weapon and means of carry.
I don't want anybody intentionally shooting me either. So I manage my equipment in the optimum fashion to accomplish both these things. GI2
There is no single recommendation that will be a blanket solution for everyone. I believe either fashion of carry can be done safely.
It's finger off the trigger and safety on until on target or coming on target, regardless of carry orientation. That has more to do with accidentally shooting someone than horizontal muzzle carry.

edit: The majority of the time, unless I am going into especially dangerous circumstances, I carry the 1911 cocked, safety off, over an empty chamber. I have gotten good enough with "draw, rack, and present" to feel comfortable with this. It is perfectly safe when holstered.
Whatever ones choice, practice, practice, practice.

 

We were trained and with extreme prejudice encouraged to reholster-no matter what type of holster-without looking at the holster. That is from an LE perspective. If we had our pistol out and it turned into chrome bracelet time, we don't want to take our eyes of the perceived threat. Pet peeve of mine is to watch footage of cops going hands on, with their pistol out- and even worse having cuffs in one hand, their pistol in the other and looking at both trying to figure out what to do first. The BeeGee is only going to wait just so long before he will help in the decision making.

Anyway, Galco has always been really good gear.

And, whilst (I love using that word) we are mentioning safety--for what it's worth, I am the worlds biggest safety fan. Believe me, I am- however in regards to an ND with the pistol in a horizontal rig, keep in mind with Glocks in particular---Glock did unbelievable testing regarding the actual safety of their trigger/safety mechanism. Dropped out of helicopters, beaten to smitherines with hammers, etc- and it wasn't until Gaston was satisfied with it that the final design was adapted. I also realize anything mechanical can fail- I fully understand that as well. And I understand the rules of safe gun handling- one being NEVER point your weapon at anything you don't intend to shoot. If an ND is going to happen, the biggest chance by far is going to be when the gun is coming out or going back in.
Just for clarity.

 

Gentlemen, Now that the topic of carrying without a round in the chamber has come up, I firmly believe that is a huge potential problem. There are many sceanrios where one only has one hand available to draw. Such situation as fending off blows from weapons such as knives, hammers, etc. and pushing family members out of the line of fire required one hand operation of one's weapon. You simply can't count on having both hands free to rack the slide. Besides, it has been proven that some folks fail to rack the slide properly when under stress. Bascially, they don't pull the slide back far enough to ensure that the round has fed into the chamber. This is particularly the case with those who lack hand strength - due to physical size, medical issues and age. I recommend being ready for the fight and using proper gear rather than handicapping one's self to make up for inferior gear.

This video depicts some of those issues: [ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVPiic-ELoM"]This is Why You Carry With A Round in the Chamber! | Active Self Protection - YouTube[/ame]

 

Gentlemen, Now that the topic of carrying without a round in the chamber has come up, I firmly believe that is a huge potential problem. ....

This video depicts some of those issues....

Sigh... And I was hoping that this wouldn't need to come up. Seems it has to make its way into every thread. BTW, I do not find the video very persuasive. In nearly every scenario shown, you wouldn't ever find me. And that's more than half the battle. If ever I was in a situation where I absolutely needed to be in condition 1 just to survive, then the fact is I've already lost. It's for that reason you will never see me in a seedy liquor store or what-have-you.

My Ted Blocker shoulder rig is for my Government 1911, it's vertical, and is is amazing how it is totally concealed under a tighter long sleeve shirt.

Thanks. And that really gets to the heart of my question as complete concealment is important for me. The 92FS/M9 is full-sized, and I'm thinking it won't work all that well in the horizontal, thus my interest in the vertical.

 

My Ted Blocker shoulder rig is for my Government 1911, it's vertical, and is is amazing how it is totally concealed under a tighter long sleeve shirt.

 

That is exactly why I carry revolvers. There is always a round in the chamber, little chance for malfunction, can cycle in a pocket, not going to fire if dropped, double or single action, etc., etc., etc.

 

I would think you would have no problem concealing an M9 in a vertical configuration. I'm right-handed, so the gun is on the left, and the two spare mags are on the other side.

I did have Ted Blocker remove the guns retention strap, and replace the nylon straps with leather straps. In a vertical position, I don't feel the retention strap is necessary. It wasn't a thumbreak type so it was kind of awkward too.

 

Nothing like a definitive answer for your question Duce! GI1

 

For every scenario you can think of, you can also think of ways it can go wrong with your choice of weapon, carry, operational system....whatever.
Pick a gun. Pick a rig. Chose a method. PRACTICE until (and after) you are comfortable with the setup. Comfortable. Not Complacent.
All the speculation is overkill. The whole deal about carrying over an empty chamber being "potentially problematic", only speaks to my point that every scenario can be problematic. For instance, just to prove my point, suppose you are accosted. Maybe from behind, maybe not. The perp feels your gun as you see/become aware of him, he is able to disarm you quickly and instantly you're looking down the barrel of your own gun. Now, do you want to hear a "click" and have that split second opportunity to retake your gun, and/or overtake the perp.....or would you feel "safer" if he just shot you in the head?
Come on guys. This is not a one answer fits all. Y'all do what you're comfortable with, and I will do what I have been comfortable with for many years.

 

It appears, like most things, it just depends.

I'm too skinny to hide most fullsize horizontal shoulder rigs. Midsize, no problem. Covering with the muzzle while in the holster is kind of a moot point, as said already, it's always going to cover something.
Rule #2 Muzzle control is more about when it's in your hand...(within reason).
Re-holstering is not a big deal if it takes two hands, just make sure you're looking at the world around you and NOT your gear. You can check for an open area behind you before re-holstering so you're not covering anyone.

If you carry on an empty chamber, get REALLY good at racking the slide one-handed. Honestly, you should be practicing one-handed Draws; Racks; and Malfunction clearing with either hand.

Lastly, and I haven't yet seen this mentioned here. There is a simple technique to avoid covering your support arm on the draw and re-holster.
Let's assume you're a right handed shooter with a left armpit shoulder holster. Typically you'll have a cover garment, so you grab the shirt with the left hand and sweep it back to access the holster and at the same time kick your left elbow up so your arm is clear of the draw path. Draw with the right hand and as the gun comes to the front, your left elbow drops and the left hand moves to the support grip after the pistol has cleared your left arm.


Hopefully, that's as clear as mud.

 

I think it’s more a matter of statistical odds of an encounter.
If you aren’t in a career that brings the chance occurance in play such an LE, liqueur store owner, cashier. Most people feel they carry just in case they might need it some day with the odds being they never will.
So it becomes how much effort to you want to do for something that most likely will never occur.

 

Carried both an upside down and horizontal shoulder holster at different point in my career. Never felt at a disadvantage with either style. I never owned a vertical style other than an upside down Safariland shoulder holster for a revolver.

 

Horizontal carry.

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Horizontal carry; so you can shoot the bad guys behind you in the elevator;
Ref:: Det. John Mcain ;; Die Hard 2.