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SAGE EBR 1st generation vs 2nd generation chasiss

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5.5K views 25 replies 16 participants last post by  Whipped Cream Head  
#1 · (Edited)
Took some pics for anyone interested in the overall differences between the 1st generation (circa 2003-04) SAGE chassis versus 2nd generation (circa 2005 and later) SAGE chassis.

Top with tan handguard has a 2007 dated Pachmayr buttpad, so I’ll call this an “intermediate” 2nd generation SAGE chassis. It will be used on a USMC M39 replica. (M39s were fielded 2008-2012).

Bottom with black handguard is what I will call a “late” 1st generation SAGE chassis. It was likely made in December 2004 (per Kevin, aka H2O Man). and it will be used on an early Mk 14 Mod 0 replica.
Image


The biggest difference is the 1st generation chassis had a longer 13” forend. The Navy/Crane field tested these in 2003-04 and in November 2004 the Navy PM asked SAGE to lighten the chassis by reducing the length of the forend by 1.75 inches, and to add numerous round “lightening holes” to slightly reduce weight. Note different forend lengths:
Image


This request from the Navy/Crane resulted in the so-called “chop mod” chassis which reportedly went into production in early 2005. The top cover for the forend was reduced to about 11.25” in length. The last of the long /1st generation chassis were made around December 2004, and they also included the various “lightening” holes to further reduce weight, but w/ the last of the 13” long forends.
.
Image


The original 13” top covers all had 6 screws and were only designed for the standard profile M14 barrel. The later/2nd generation top covers came in both 5 or 6 screws, but only the 5-screw covers work with medium weight barrels. The M39s used a medium weight Kreiger barrel, so their top covers were 5-screws, and were also machined at the rear to provide clearance for the SEI scope mount (see flat area on rear of cover).

Image



The earliest prototype 1st generation SAGE stocks had no markings on them (circa 2003 to most of 2004). I have see these unmarked chassis anodized bronze, black and Navy Seal Gray (NSG).


By the end of 2004 a U.S. patent application had been submitted, and the very late 2004 and 2005 era chassis had SAGE markings have a “Patent Pending” notation. Those were used on the Mk 14 Mod 0 rifles, but different styles of markings are seen. This is the early “dot matrix” style font reportedly from late 2004.
Image


I think around 2006 SAGE got its official patent number, and that was added to the chassis markings. The funny thing about the circa 2007-08 era USMC M39 chassis is there is a slight typo on the markings. There is a superfluous extra space between “INTERNATIONAL” and the comma “,” as seen here. Not sure when this was fixed, but the 2007-8 era SAGE chassis have that typo. Also seen is the machining under the stamping along the lower edge is different from the 1st generation chassis. In the later chassis, more aluminum was machined away to slightly reduce weight of the chassis.
Image


The buttpad also changed from the 1st generation “SPEED FEED” (on bottom) to the 2nd generation Pachmyar “DECELERATOR” part (top). I don’t know what year that change took place, but likely by 2006.
Image


Here one can see some differences in the machining on the bottom edge, with the top chasiss designed to be slightly lighter than the bottom/earlier version.
Image


FWIW, the USMC specified a stock extension piece for the M39s, which SAGE called a ‘BEK’ extension. Here’s the early version shown below. The NSG color of the anodizing often changed slightly based on the batches, as its sort-of impossible to always have perfect color match when anodizing a light gray color.
Image


My chassis for the M39 replica still needs to have numbers laser-engraved on the top rail and side rails, but it is otherwise correct and complete. Unfortunately I had to buy an entire M1A Scout rifle just to get this old (2007-8 era) SAGE chassis, but that’s life.

The “late” or final second generation SAGE chassis has the ERGO rubber grip, which replaced the earlier style checkered plastic grip. As far as I can tell, this occurred around 2009 as the Army EBR-RIs have this final type of grip. Also seen are the final style of markings seen on the SAGE chassis.
Image


Summing up, there were a lot of small variations and permutations of the SAGE M14 EBR chassis seen between 2003-2009, and this post certainly doesn’t cover all those small changes, but hopefully it at least shows the main changes between the first generation (2003-4) and the second generation chassis (circa 2005 and later). There were various changes after 2005, but by 2009 it seems the SAGE chassis design was finally mature…to the best of my knowledge.
 
#5 · (Edited)
Are there any major differences between the services’ chassis, or did they end up with only Gen 1 or Gen 2 based upon when they decided to field a ‘14?
Yes and yes. The first generation chassis were used by some Army personnel. Per the Mk 14 PM at Crane, the very first 20 SAGE chassis that were field tested went to the U.S. Army Rapid Equip Force. They were uniquely anodized a bronze or brownish color. (Why? I don’t know). Here’s the only pic I have seen of the original SAGE in that color. It’s an unmarked chassis that has a vertical grip and not a Kydex handguard.

Image


I have seen several pics of US Army Airborne units with the 1st generation SAGE chassis (in both Afghanistan and I think Iraq too). I suspect NAVY Seals and others might have tested the early versions too, but public pics have not turned up online This is the early long forend/Gen 1 SAGE w/ Speed Feed buttpad. The earliest EBR chassis also had 6” long side rails, as seen here. To reduce weight the side rails were shortened to 4.5”, presumably in very late 2004 or early 2005.

Image


Image


However, it was really 2005 when the Navy funded a large procurement of Mk 14 Mod 0s, and those were mostly the generation 2 chassis. So, other than several dozen (maybe a hundred?) of the longer 2003-04 Gen 1 prototypes, the vast majority of US military SAGE EBR procurements were the Generation 2 chassis circa 2005 to 2012 or so. There were numerous changes along the way based on SAGE’s production processes and the end-customer’s configuration requirements.

From a replica perspective, the Mk 14 Mod 1 and Mod 2 chassis being the most unique configurations (and hard to find), followed by the M39 chassis with BEK part and unique top cover, etc. By the time the U.S. Army at Rock Island ordered black 6200 EBR chassis circa 2009-2012, the design was by then mature (although the vertical foregrip was changed later on).

To answer your question, the USMC specified some unique things in their SAGE chassis that differ from the earlier Mk Mod 0 chassis (ie, tan handguard, BEK buttpad extension, etc).

BTW, Crane held the master contract for the SAGE chassis, so all chassis orders from the Army, Navy, USMC, Coast Guard and Air Force went through the PM at Crane. He worked with the various branches on their technical requirements. Big Army was apparently the challenge, as they wanted to create a second set of drawings owned by Rock Island, and thus have their own procurement authority…instead of Crane managing orders. I don’t know the details, but apparently Rock Island developed their own EBR chassis drawings with some minor revisions that differed from the SAGE drawings. At least that is what I was told.
 
#6 ·
Yes and yes. The first generation chassis were used by some Army personnel. Per the Mk 14 PM at Crane, the very first 20 SAGE chassis that were field tested went to the U.S. Army Rapid Equip Force. They were uniquely anodized a bronze or brownish color. (Why? I don’t know). Here’s the only pic I have seen of the original SAGE in that color. It’s an unmarked chassis that has a vertical grip and not a Kydex handguard.

View attachment 548367

I have seen several pics of US Army Airborne units with the 1st generation SAGE chassis (in both Afghanistan and I think Iraq too). I suspect NAVY Seals and others might have tested the early versions too, but public pics have not turned up online This is the early long forend/Gen 1 SAGE w/ Speed Feed buttpad. The earliest EBR chassis also had 6” long side rails, as seen here. To reduce weight the side rails were shortened to 4.5”, presumably in very late 2004 or early 2005.

View attachment 548374

View attachment 548375

However, it was really 2005 when the Navy funded a large procurement of Mk 14 Mod 0s, and those where mostly the generation 2 chassis. So, other than several dozen (maybe a hundred?) of the longer 2003-04 Gen 1 prototypes, the vast majority of US military SAGE EBR procurements were the Generation 2 chassis circa 2005 to 2012 or so. There were numerous changes along the way based on SAGE’s production processes and the end-customer. The Mk 14 Mod 1 and Mod 2 chassis being the most unique configurations (and hard to find for a replica), followed by the M39 chassis with BEK part and unique top cover, etc. By the time the U.S. Army at Rock Island ordered black 6200 EBR chassis circa 2009-2012, the design was by then mature (although the vertical foregrip was changed later on).

BTW, Crane held the master contract for the SAGE chassis, so all chassis orders from the Army, Navy, USMC, Coast Guard and Air Force went through the PM at Crane. He worked with the various branches on their technical requirements. Big Army was apparently the challenge, as they wanted to create a second set of drawings owned by Rock Island, and thus have their own procurement authority…instead if Crane managing the program. I don’t know the details, but apparently Rock Island developed their own EBR chassis drawings with some minor revisions that differed from SAGE. I think…
I actually have one of the early unmarked pre-chop mod chassis. From what I was told it was a police trade in covered in black epoxy paint. I had it cerakoted in a custom color to match those MK14 trials rifles. If anyone is interested I can take some more detailed pics of the chassis.

 
#10 ·
If anyone is interested I can take some more detailed pics of the chassis.
Thanks, that’s a neat early chassis. Can you take pics of the one of the front rails? Curious if it’s the 6” version or the shorter version. If not too much trouble, I’d like to see the barrel clearance with the top cover off, specifically at the middle screws, since you mentioned it has a medium weight barrel. Your rifle looks similar to the original prototypes circa 2003.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Updating this thread with a couple of pics regarding the two versions seen of the SAGE vertical fore-grips (Model: M14VFG). I will call them the “early” and “late” styles. Unfortunately I don’t know what year SAGE changed the design, but I would guess sometime around the mid-201Xs? On the left is the older style, and on the right is the newer style (w/ packaging).
Image


Image


Image


The newer style looks better made with more precise machining, but if someone has an early SAGE grip for sale, or is willing to trade for my new style grip (plus some cash), please let me know. My early SAGE chasiss did not come with the VTG, so I am looking for one like seen on the left for my replica, thanks.

Anyhow, to the best of my knowledge, those appear to be the two main styles of SAGE vertical fore-grips, with the solid cap versus hollow bottom cap the easiest way to identify which version a rifle might have.
 
#22 ·
So here are the 3 military versions of the Sage VFG. Technically there is a 4th version that is identical to the earliest one on the far left. The only difference is that the solid bottom piece is in the raw aluminum instead of the black coating you see here. I’ve seen the silver bottom VFG’s in some very early reference photos of mod 0’s from the navy power points.


You can see the earliest version had an entirely different shape to the body of the VFG, a different indexing pin, but the bottom pieces were identical. At some point they changed the shape of the grip, but kept the same solid body bottom piece. Then they eventually switched to the same VFG body, with a hollow bottom piece.

There is a 4th (or 5th if you count the silver bottom as a separate iteration) commercial VFG which was the most recent one Sage sold, that has a new, different shape than the VFG’s on the middle and right.
Image


Image


Image

Image
 
#24 ·
Great pics and info, thanks for doing this(!).
Of course now I want to find one of the earlier VTG for my patent pending chassis…probably a unicorn at this point. Anyhow, thanks for adding to the body of knowledge re this arcane topic.
If you happen to find two…. I have one of the earliest, longer ones with no stamping on it. Not going to hold my breath till I find one though.
 
#25 ·
Took some pics for anyone interested in the overall differences between the 1st generation (circa 2003-04) SAGE chassis versus 2nd generation (circa 2005 and later) SAGE chassis.

Top with tan handguard has a 2007 dated Pachmayr buttpad, so I’ll call this an “intermediate” 2nd generation SAGE chassis. It will be used on a USMC M39 replica. (M39s were fielded 2008-2012).

Bottom with black handguard is what I will call a “late” 1st generation SAGE chassis. It was likely made in November or December 2004, and it will be used on an early Mk 14 Mod 0 replica.
View attachment 548341

The biggest difference is the 1st generation chassis had a longer 13” forend. The Navy/Crane field tested these in 2003-04 and in November 2004 the Navy PM asked SAGE to lighten the chassis by reducing the length of the forend by 1.75 inches, and to add numerous round “lightening holes” to slightly reduce weight. Note different forend lengths:
View attachment 548355

This request from the Navy/Crane resulted in the so-called “chop mod” chassis which reportedly went into production in early 2005. The top cover for the forend was reduced to about 11.25” in length. The last of the long /1st generation chassis were made around December 2004, and they also included the various “lightening” holes to further reduce weight, but w/ the last of the 13” long forends.
. View attachment 548343

The original 13” top covers all had 6 screws and were only designed for the standard profile M14 barrel. The later/2nd generation top covers came in both 5 or 6 screws, but only the 5-screw covers work with medium weight barrels. The M39s used a medium weight Kreiger barrel, so their top covers were 5-screws, and were also machined at the rear to provide clearance for the SEI scope mount (see flat area on rear of cover).

View attachment 548357


The earliest prototype 1st generation SAGE stocks had no markings on them (circa 2003 to most of 2004). I have see these unmarked chassis anodized bronze, black and Navy Seal Gray (NSG).


By the end of 2004 a U.S. patent application had been submitted, and the very late 2004 and 2005 era chassis had SAGE markings have a “Patent Pending” notation. Those were used on the Mk 14 Mod 0 rifles, but different styles of markings are seen. This is the early “dot matrix” style font reportedly from late 2004.
View attachment 548345

I think around 2006 SAGE got its official patent number, and that was added to the chassis markings. The funny thing about the circa 2007-08 era USMC M39 chassis is there is a slight typo on the markings. There is a superfluous extra space between “INTERNATIONAL” and the comma “,” as seen here. Not sure when this was fixed, but the 2007-8 era SAGE chassis have that typo. Also seen is the machining under the stamping along the lower edge is different from the 1st generation chassis. In the later chassis, more aluminum was machined away to slightly reduce weight of the chassis.
View attachment 548346

The buttpad also changed from the 1st generation “SPEED FEED” (on bottom) to the 2nd generation Pachmyar “DECELERATOR” part (top). I don’t know what year that change took place, but likely by 2006.
View attachment 548347

Here one can see some differences in the machining on the bottom edge, with the top chasiss designed to be slightly lighter than the bottom/earlier version.
View attachment 548348

FWIW, the USMC specified a stock extension piece for the M39s, which SAGE called a ‘BEK’ extension. Here’s the early version shown below. The NSG color of the anodizing often changed slightly based on the batches, as its sort-of impossible to always have perfect color match when anodizing a light gray color.
View attachment 548350

My chassis for the M39 replica still needs to have numbers laser-engraved on the top rail and side rails, but it is otherwise correct and complete. Unfortunately I had to buy an entire M1A Scout rifle just to get this old (2007-8 era) SAGE chassis, but that’s life.

The “late” or final second generation SAGE chassis has the ERGO rubber grip, which replaced the earlier style checkered plastic grip. As far as I can tell, this occurred around 2009 as the Army EBR-RIs have this final type of grip. Also seen are the final style of markings seen on the SAGE chassis.
View attachment 548351

Summing up, there were a lot of small variations and permutations of the SAGE M14 EBR chassis seen between 2003-2009, and this post certainly doesn’t cover all those small changes, but hopefully it at least shows the main changes between the first generation (2003-4) and the second generation chassis (circa 2005 and later). There were various changes after 2005, but by 2009 it seems the SAGE chassis design was finally mature…to the best of my knowledge.
Super cool analysis man! How did you get your hands on a 1st gen?