The wood looks a lot better now. Wow, amazing work, sir.

 

Thanks!

I had to change the wood color on this and my PSL.

The light wood just didn't look right to me.

EDIT: I did get some pushback from some hardcore AK-guys and M76 owners that said the typical M76 wood is a mid to light tone, and not that dark - but I like the dark look. Not going for a serious M76 clone or anything, just a similar DMR-look.

 

The scope came in yesterday, and doesn't look bad. It's only 8.5" long, 2-8x 32mm, with locking MIL turrets and a MIL reticle. Just about the only compact scope I could find in that range. I wanted something with similar dimensions to the M76 scope. I'll keep looking for a better one, but for now this should be OK.

 

Range Report! Range Report! We want a Range Report!

 

Me too!

I'm currently helping my youngest son, who just finished his Marine Corps enlistment, move into his new home, and he has plans for a range on the property.

Haven't started on it yet, but hopefully soon. The other private range I shoot at is about 2 hours away. I've had too many safety-related incidents at the local public ranges.

I may have to make a trip up nort (ya hey) to the other private range.

 

That looks excellent. Zastava is killing it.

Great job sir.

 

That looks excellent. Zastava is killing it.

Great job sir.

Thanks.

My first Zastava, but it does seem to be very well constructed for this type of rifle.

 

I was delighted to see a wood stock version at the gun show this weekend- it is indeed a solid, impressively well-made rifle. However, upon shouldering it- it's just too front heavy for me to handle due to my physical limitations (wheelchair bound, finger & thumb amputation/damage to my left [support] arm).

I know I'd love a lighter version, but as is- the model I handled has just too much weight too far out front for a shooter with my limitations who only shoots offhand. Nice rifle, though- enjoy!

 

Thanks Pete. Sorry to hear of your limitations.

The M77 is pretty heavy, no doubt, but adding the scope and mount do help to even-out the balance. Not sure if the polymer version would be significantly lighter or not. Seems like all the long-barreled DMRs would be too front heavy for extended off-hand shooting.

What rifles have you found to work well for you?

 

I adore my Mini-14 Tactical 300 BLK because it's pretty much literally my Scout Squad after having been left in the dryer too long. It's identical in looks, manual of arms, and everything else I love about the M1A- just smaller, lighter, more handy, and easier to shoot.

After shooting my .308 rifles, my 300 BLK rifles feel like firing a .22 Mag in comparison... and shooting subsonic 300 BLK feels more like pinking with a .22 LR.

I've always been a 7.62 aficionado- I never got on the .223/5.56 bandwagon. I was thrilled to see the 300 BLK come to fruition because it was the missing puzzle piece in the American 7.62 hierarchy... Large: 7.62×63 (30-06), Medium: 7.62×51 (.308 Win), and Small: 7.62×35 (300 BLK) *which is the modern replacement for the original baby brother- 7.62×33 (.30 Carbine).

I have the ubiquitous AK in 7.62 Soviet because no collection is complete without one, but I'd actually prefer it if someone would make an AK in 300 BLK (simply re-barrel a .223 AK?)- because I think 300 BLK is a much more useful caliber.

Optics wise, since the iron sights on my M1A are so superb- I actually have a TRS-25 red dot mounted on a 45° offset mount on the scout rail of my Scout Squad (in order to not interfere with the irons). It may seem a little silly- but danged if it don't actually work great!

I upgraded the OEM rear sight on my MIni-14 with a Tech Sights MINI200. I have tried out both the OEM Ruger picatinny rail as well as an aftermarket see-thru pic rail on the Mini-14 Tactical, but I just haven't warmed up to having a mount directly over the action. I mounted a Cogburn Arsenal stripper clip guide on the Mini-14 (to truly make it just like its M1A big brother), and I just prefer to keep those Garand actions unobstructed. So, for now- the Mini-14 remains an iron sight-only rifle... and it does just fine that way.

I've got a Trijicon MRO with a flip-up rear iron on the 300 BLK AR, and just use the standard sights on the AK.

But, by far my favorite optic is on the P1 .308 AR- a Primary Arms SLx 1x Etched Reticle Green MicroPrism. That optic is DA BOMB!

And, no- your questions aren't annoying at all... I'm happy to provide annoyingly detailed answers to any/all questions all day long around here. 😎

 

(SNIP)
I've always been a 7.62 aficionado- I never got on the .223/5.56 bandwagon. I was thrilled to see the 300 BLK come to fruition because it was the missing puzzle piece in the American 7.62 hierarchy... Large: 7.62×63 (30-60), Medium: 7.62×51 (.308 Win), and Small: 7.62×35 (300 BLK) *which is the modern replacement for the original baby brother- 7.62×33 (.30 Carbine).

I have the ubiquitous AK in 7.62 Soviet because no collection is complete without one, but I'd actually prefer it if someone would make an AK in 300 BLK (simply re-barrel a .223 AK?)- because I think 300 BLK is a much more useful caliber.

Optics wise, since the iron sights on my M1A are so superb- I actually have a TRS-25 red dot mounted on a 45° offset mount on the scout rail of my Scout Squad (in order to not interfere with the irons). It may seem a little silly- but danged if it don't actually work great!

I upgraded the OEM rear sight on my MIni-14 with a Tech Sights MINI200. I have tried out both the OEM Ruger picatinny rail as well as an aftermarket see-thru pic rail on the Mini-14 Tactical, but I just haven't warmed up to having a mount directly over the action. I mounted a Cogburn Arsenal stripper clip guide on the Mini-14 (to truly make it just like its M1A big brother), and I just prefer to keep those Garand actions unobstructed. So, for now- the Mini-14 remains an iron sight-only rifle... and it does just fine that way.

I've got a Trijicon MRO with a flip-up rear iron on the 300 BLK AR, and just use the standard sights on the AK.

But, by far my favorite optic is on the P1 .308 AR- a Primary Arms SLx 1x Etched Reticle Green MicroPrism. That optic is DA BOMB!

And, no- your questions aren't annoying at all... I'm happy to provide annoyingly detailed answers to any/all questions all day long around here. 😎

I hear ya - that's all I have, except .22LR.

I know ARs are great and all that, just never been a fan of the design or its standard caliber.

 

Is the scope rail a regular AK rail or something different? I know that the zastava scopes they put on other yugo AKs sit weird on these ones.

 

Is the scope rail a regular AK rail or something different? I know that the zastava scopes they put on other yugo AKs sit weird on these ones.

The scope rail on Zastava/"Yugo" rifles is not exactly the same as a standard AK variant.

Not sure of the specifics, but there is a difference.

EDIT: The Zastava/Yugo rails are set more rearward than the standard AK rail, so you are not able to get adequate eye relief with most scopes if using a standard AK scope mount unless you can move the scope forward on a Pic rail.

 

jkv45 I just got a Zastava M77 PAP yesterday. When I get it set up we can race.

Your thread a played a large part in my decision to buy when I found it at the LGS yesterday. I site this when I challenge my Wife's allegation that there was any impulse buying going on. I had decided to go out and get a VZ-58 but the one store I went to did not in fact have the Czechpoint one I wanted. So I went to the another store on the way home and saw it in the rack on my 2nd lap around the store. I recalled this thread and acted.

So far I am really happy about the build quality.

 

Had the M77 out again this weekend, doing some basic testing with inexpensive factory ammo at 100 yards. Weather was good. No wind and about 70F most of the day.

Changed the gas adjustment to "1" - which is the most bleed-off, and it ran fine with everything. Recoil may have been a bit softer than on "2", but not a huge amount. Also added a cheek riser, which helped. The scope is 8x.

Shot Norma Tactical .308 147gr, Saltech .308 147gr (stamped 7.62...), Igman .308 147gr, and Federal GMM 168gr.

Overall, the results were average. It preferred the Igman light ball over everything else - including the GMM.

Results were -

Norma - 3.6" 5-shot

Saltech - 5.4" 5-shot

Igman - 2.4" 5-shot

Federal GMM 168 - 3.5" 5-shot

About what I expected, except for the GMM not grouping better. Not sure what the barrel twist is (EDIT: it's 1:12), but it seems to favor the light ball. Most of my other battle rifles like GMM best.

I still have a few other inexpensive factory loads to try, and I'll try the GMM again to see if it was just operator error - which is always a major factor!

Igman .308 147gr at 106 yds -

 

Had the M77 out again this weekend, doing some basic testing with inexpensive factory ammo at 100 yards. Weather was good. No wind and about 70F most of the day.

Changed the gas adjustment to "1" - which is the most bleed-off, and it ran fine with everything. Recoil may have been a bit softer than on "2", but not a huge amount. Also added a cheek riser, which helped. The scope is 8x.

Shot Norma Tactical .308 147gr, Saltech .308 147gr (stamped 7.62...), Igman .308 147gr, and Federal GMM 168gr.

Overall, the results were average. It preferred the Igman light ball over everything else - including the GMM.

Results were -

Norma - 3.6" 5-shot

Saltech - 5.4" 5-shot

Igman - 2.3" 5-shot

Federal GMM 168 - 3.5" 5-shot

About what I expected, except for the GMM not grouping better. Not sure what the barrel twist is, but it seems to favor the light ball. Most of my other battle rifles like GMM best.

I still have a few other inexpensive factory loads to try, and I'll try the GMM again to see if it was just operator error - which is always a major factor!

What exactly does igman “light” ball mean?

 

I just asked Zastava after seeing the above post/range report.

"Hi Brian-

The M77 is a 1:12 Twist. Please let us know if you need anything else. Thank you."

Last week or so, I had mine all apart and saw no stamp on the barrel I could discern.

 

I like the project.

I looked at M76 8mm rifles a couple of times, but then they got hard to find and expensive. I still have my PSL and like it, but the stocks they come with suck, so I put a nice Rhineland Arms on mine and the longer LOP, and rubber pad make it much easier to shoot, night and day difference.

 

I like the M76, but didn't want to deviate from my standard .308/7.62 into 8mm Mauser.

The PSL is fun to shoot, but 7.62x54R isn't as easy, or cheap, to get as it used to be.

The M77 gives me something similar in a readily available caliber.

 

Its easy when you have almost two cases of 7N1, LOL.

 

LOL, remove 6 yards from the total distance and you have a 2 MOA SVD. Yes Im kidding....awesome gun man.

 

Thanks. I need to spend some more time with it, but overall it has performed about as expected. It's enjoyable to shoot, and seems to favor the less expensive lighter .308 ammo, so it's all good.

I did enter the info with 106 yards as the distance, but it didn't seem to change the MOA as much as I thought it would.

 

Is the top SVD type rifle one of yours as well?

 

If you mean in post #22 - yes.

It's a Romanian PSL54, chambered in 7.62x54R (Rimmed - not Russian).

They are often referred to as the "Poor man's SVD", but differ quite a bit from a SVD Dragunov. A more correct nickname is "Big AK", as it is the same configuration as an AK (7.62x39) - only bigger.

 

Still looking for the magic bullet for the M77, but no luck so far.

Fired some GGG 147, Norma 147, and Igman 147 last weekend, but couldn't duplicate the previous Igman groups (2.4" @ 106 yards).

Also tried some Hornady Black 168s, which did no better - maybe even worse than the 147s.

In general, it doesn't seem to like the heavier bullets.

Got a few more to try, next time out.

 

Try Hornady Custom Lite .308 125gr- my Scout Squad loves it...

308 Win 125 gr SST® Custom Lite® - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

...

www.hornady.com

In stock here:
(mislabeled as 128gr)

Hornady 308 Win Ammunition Custom Lite H80866 125 Grain SST 20 rounds

Hornady 308 Win Ammunition Custom Lite H80866 125 Grain SST 20 rounds

www.outdoorlimited.com

 

Try Hornady Custom Lite .308 125gr- my Scout Squad loves it...

308 Win 125 gr SST® Custom Lite® - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

...

www.hornady.com

In stock here:
(mislabeled as 128gr)

Hornady 308 Win Ammunition Custom Lite H80866 125 Grain SST 20 rounds

Hornady 308 Win Ammunition Custom Lite H80866 125 Grain SST 20 rounds

www.outdoorlimited.com

I'll have to give that a try.

My M1 likes the same 125gr SST in .30-06.

 

And if they work, please give Hornady a call and tell them to release an economical Custom Lite load in .308.

I have been in touch with them recommending they offer a "Custom Lite Training" load utilizing their 125gr AMP FMJ as a more economical option to their SST offering. The product development dept said that was a good idea, and I told them I'd spread the word here on M14Forum and ask members to call Hornady to show that there's interest in the product.

I enjoy shooting Hornday's Custom Lite load so much that if there was a cheaper version of it- it would be the only load I shoot in my Scout Squad.

It's that impressive.

 

And if they work, please give Hornady a call and tell them to release an economical Custom Lite load in .308.

I have been in touch with them recommending they offer a "Custom Lite Training" load utilizing their 125gr AMP FMJ as a more economical option to their SST offering. The product development dept said that was a good idea, and I told them I'd spread the word here on M14Forum and ask members to call Hornady to show that there's interest in the product.

I enjoy shooting Hornday's Custom Lite load so much that if there was a cheaper version of it- it would be the only load I shoot in my Scout Squad.

It's that impressive.

That would be great!

I like to know just what a particular rifle can do, but don't shoot the best rounds all the time. After I find what it likes the best, I'll try to find a second best, economical, round for my average range day.

Now, if my son (former Marine and AR-guy) happens to challenge me and my .308 (as he likes to) - I know what I need.

I don't feel I have found the best for the M77 quite yet - but I have some Hornady Lite in the cart!

Reloading is on the horizon, just not quite yet.

 

Reloading is on the horizon, just not quite yet.

That's exactly how I feel- I would love to roll my own "light" loads that are kind to my beat-up body... I'm just not quite to where I'm confident in absorbing all of the minute details that are compulsory for handloading.

But never say never, right...?

 

working on refinishing mine the factory job on wood prep is terrible like they sanded the furniture with 50 grit sandpaper and used brown shoe polish for stain and a very light coat of varnish the bluing on metal is perfect but the wood finish is less than to be desirable

 

working on refinishing mine the factory job on wood prep is terrible like they sanded the furniture with 50 grit sandpaper and used brown shoe polish for stain and a very light coat of varnish the bluing on metal is perfect but the wood finish is less than to be desirable

I thought so too, but mine was more yellow-ish than brown.

I have a habit of refinishing my rifle stocks that are too light or yellow-colored.

Did my PSL as well -

Doesn't help the value, and I got called out by Rob Ski, but I never sell anything anyway.

 

 

I'm going to keep trying a few things to see if I can get my accuracy to a better level, but mine didn't seem to care for the Federal 168gr GMM that Rob's M77 shot well out past 500 yards.

Rob seems to be able to get anything to shoot great that others struggle with - like the PSL and M77.

I'm sure some of my issues are related to The Jerk on the trigger...

 

Next step is an upgrade to my optics (on order) - and the optic mount.

The factory Zastava mount I purchased seems a bit light duty, and after seeing Rob's M77 video (above) I decided to ask him what mount he is using. He is using an AK Master Mount, and sells them on his site - AK Operators Union | Shop - Optics, Mounts, and Accessories

I decided to pick up the long Yugo (Zastava) mount to replace my factory Zastava/UTG mount. The long mount would allow the use and proper placement of a standard scope, as the rail extends much farther forward than most others. I'm still going with a compact scope, mostly because it keeps the overall appearance similar to the M76.

Hoping my accuracy issues are all related to a weak mount and inexpensive scope.

We'll see.

 

Latest update -

I decided to contact Zastava USA to see what they have to say about my accuracy issues and the barrel twist rate.

Unlike what Zastava told brianns (post #28), the Zastava employee that responded to my email said the barrels are 1:10 twist - not 1:12 like he was told.

They also said my 3 to 4 MOA is acceptable...and the Rob isn't your average shooter...(we already knew that).

 

Latest update -

I decided to contact Zastava USA to see what they have to say about my accuracy issues and the barrel twist rate.

Unlike what Zastava told brianns (post #28), the Zastava employee that responded to my email said the barrels are 1:10 twist - not 1:12 like he was told.

They also said my 3 to 4 MOA is acceptable...and the Rob isn't your average shooter...(we already knew that).

I put my scope testing on hold for other costs. I have an old crappy 4x on it now but it's back burnered. I have the Zastava brand mount on it too. I think you did, but did you take the cleaning rod out of the rifle? Mine was in very tight and may have acted like a truss rod in a guitar, but in an un-helpful manner. It's out for my future tests. My AK-74 cleaning rod is very loose I was not as worried about it(food for thought though when I get back into that one).

 

YouTube video (not me) showing some M77 accuracy tests (part 2), with some mention of accuracy with and without the cleaning rod installed. The rod did appear to adversely affect accuracy (7:50) -

Part 1 (first impressions, mostly) -

Part 3 (additional accuracy testing) -

 

Scope came in -

US Optics TS-12X Compact 3-12x44 -

Just need to get a set of scope rings to go with my new set-up.

I'm hoping that the combination of a better mount (post 51) and this scope will bring the accuracy to what it should be.

I did find out that the barrel is 1:10 twist, per recent message from Zastava USA, not 1:12 like Zastava had said before.

Rob Ski is getting excellent accuracy out past 500 yards with Federal 168gr GMM and Norma 175gr Match. I'm hoping to consistently get around 1.5 MOA at 100. About 2.5 MOA has been the best so far, using Igman 147gr. Should do better with 168gr GMM - but it didn't.

Got more work to do...

 

Scope came in -

US Optics TS-12X Compact 3-12x44 -
View attachment 539041

Just need to get a set of scope mounts to go with my new set-up.

I'm hoping that the combination of a better mount (post 51) and this scope will bring the accuracy to what it should be.

I did find out that the barrel is 1:10 twist, per recent message from Zastava USA, not 1:12 like Zastava had said before.

Rob Ski is getting excellent accuracy out past 500 yards with Federal 168gr GMM and Norma 175gr Match. I'm hoping to consistently get around 1.5 MOA at 100. About 2.5 MOA has been the best so far, using Igman 147gr. Should do better with 168gr GMM - but it didn't.

Got more work to do...

Did Zastava mention anything about if some rifles had 1:12 and others got a 1:10?