[TheShooter]

3250 +or- 100fps depending on barrel and type of weapon.

Okay, What ammo is available that we can buy right now that averages the numbers you referenced?

 

[barnetmill]

Why don’t you try the IMI, PPU or Igman?

I did some videos and at the the time the Federal was the best. The PPU really suck in velocity and I was not impressed with the igman. It seems that the winchester lake city is what i want.

Igman ammo by buffman video. Look at SD and Extreme Spread.

What is a good standard deviation for ammo?


15 fps is considered better than average for factory produced ammunition, but still substandard for those who handload their own ammunition. 10 fps or less SD is typically the goal of most handloaders, and very few commercially available ammo suppliers are capable of producing ammo with SD's under 10 fps.”Apr 18, 2015

 

[TheShooter]

I did some videos and at the the time the Federal was the best. The PPU really suck in velocity and I was not impressed with the igman. It seems that the winchester lake city is what i want.

Igman ammo by buffman video. Look at SD and Extreme Spread.


View attachment 505965

So Where are you getting your information that PPU 5.55x45 M193 “ sucks” in velocity? My chronograph has it averaging around 3160 fps out of a colt 20 inch AR and Buffman-range on YouTube has it averaging 3150 fps. I wouldn’t say that exactly sucks when compared to PMC 5.56x45 XTAC ( now that ammo sucks)

 

[TheShooter]

At least igman has consistent Over all lengths, Has primer pocket sealant and bullet and sealant, Doesn’t have dented case shoulders and doesn’t look like it was swept off the back of a trash truck hasn’t blown up a weapon…
Please report back with your results of this Winchester lake city ammo. You will be disappointed it’s minute of barn door.

 

[Para Pete]

I have avoided the whole .223/5.56 rigmarole by owning only 7.62 rifles... 7.62×35, 7.62×39, and 7.62×51.

I don't own, or need, anything in .22 caliber.

 

[TheShooter]

I have avoided the whole .223/5.56 rigmarole by owning only 7.62 rifles... 7.62×35, 7.62×39, and 7.62×51.

I don't own, or need, anything in .22 caliber.

I didn’t either until I got over 30 😂😂😂

 

[barnetmill]

So Where are you getting your information that PPU 5.55x45 M193 “ sucks” in velocity? My chronograph has it averaging around 3160 fps out of a colt 20 inch AR and Buffman-range on YouTube has it averaging 3150 fps. I wouldn’t say that exactly sucks when compared to PMC 5.56x45 XTAC ( now that ammo sucks)


View attachment 505986

All I am seeing for sale at the moment is:
5.56 PMC X-TAC XP193
And what is labeled xp193.
And what is called

 

[TheShooter]

All I am seeing for sale at the moment is:
5.56 PMC X-TAC XP193
And what is labeled xp193.
And what is called View attachment 505990

Yeah that stuff is way underpowered no where close to 5.56 specs

 

[barnetmill]

Yeah that stuff is way underpowered no where close to 5.56 specs

Years ago I was reading something by russian defector talking about the difference grades of russian military gear that was sent out to other countries. For any particular item, there were difference levels of QC and sophistication. A lot of the 5.56 ammo that is out there seems to be like the lowest russian monkey grades being sold at elevated pricing.
Then there are some companies and countries that only produce monkey grade ammunition even in the best of times.
Separating the grain from chaff is the problem here.

 

[Chris F]

I've actually have strain gauge equipped uppers with Wylde and 223 Chambers and I've run pressures on USGI M193 and USGI M855 ammo as well as handloads. My purpose was to develop loads for the 90gr JLK bullets for Service Rifle competition, so I didn't do extensive testing with commercial ammo.

Keep in mind that this was a sample of two uppers (but really only one upper because I didn't run the Krieger 223 match upper very much at all).

MY Wylde chambered upper was a 6.5 twist and was fine running M193 and M855 (no external pressure signs). I actually fired those rounds with the intention of using them to calibrate my strain measurement (they were factory rounds that I had in quantity). I was not inclined to use high pressure oil calibration. I'd have to dig up my records to tell you what "real deal" USGI Ball ammo clocked on the chrono...but my recollection was that it was where I expected.

If you fire 5.56 ammo in a .223 chamber, you will generate chamber pressures in the range of proof loads.

That wasn't my experience with the Wylde chamber in instrumented testing. M855 showed more pressure than M193, and we ran handloads that showed a bit more pressure than M855.
I've shot M193 and M855 in SAAMI 223 chambers, but not strain equipped. I didn't see pressure signs.

There is a lot of confusion regarding 223 and M193. M193 is the military designation of the 223 Remington. Where the problem lies is with M855/SS109 ammunition in a 223 chamber. The m855 has a longer ogive to get as much weight in the bullet as possible and maintain the standard overall length of the cartridge. M855 will contact the rifling in a standard 223 chamber causing excess pressure when fired because of the short leade. The leade is longer in a 5.56 NATO chamber but that causes a slight accuracy problem with 223/M193 ammunition. As a compromise the 223 Wylde chamber was developed that will safely fire both types of ammunition. Chamber pressure is lowered with 5.56 NATO rounds and there is less of an accuracy loss with standard 223 rounds. It's all very confusing.

Yes there is a lot of confusion!! M193 is 223 Remington? I've never heard that. The M855 projectile has a longer ogive than the M193 projectile? I don't believe that to be true. I'll drag some of each out when I have some time and take some measurements. It's definitely a longer projectile weighing 7gr more and with the less dense steel penetrator. But most of that extra weight is in the case. It still has to fit in an M16 magazine.
I've seen all kinds of things written about the origin of the Wylde Chamber. It was designed to shoot ball ammo accurately. Bill Wylde was shooting Canadian Ball and wanted to optimize the accuracy of that ammo. That it's become a favorite of accuracy minded shooters is a byproduct of good design. I've spoken to Uncle Bill about this multiple times as well tried to convince him to send me his leftovers of C77 ammo.

 

[barnetmill]

I purchased and just received today some IMI from ammoman. It chambers correctly in a nominally 5.56 chamber and has a reputation for being high velocity shooting under 2 moa. But not likely to know until I actually fire it.

 

[brianns]

Today, my 602 replica cycled Win M193, Magtech M193, PMC Bronze 55g, and my 55g reloads pretty good. I think it’s breaking in. I only had one double feed jam.

When I first assembled it, it seemed to just work with the brown box of Federal xm193 and win M193. I’ve put the barrel on twice trying to rotate the front sight tower to be more plumb.