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Lothar-Walther barrel testing

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2.8K views 15 replies 12 participants last post by  Ksmith3620  
#1 ·
I got two final article barrels today. One in 6.5 and the other in 308. Both shot very well. The 6.5 looks to be a very accurate barrel. They mistakenly sent me 6.5 in conventional rifling with 6 lands. I was using cheap S&B 156 grain soft point ammo (won't make that mistake again) and it functioned very well. I did have some odd case failures and I'll try again with good quality ammo next time.

I pulled apart my latest LRB build and installed the heavy 6.5 barrel onto it and set the headspace. This rifle has no NM modifications at all with the exception of the heavy barrel. The gas system isn't even shimmed. The spring guide is a GI spring guide, the piston is a standard piston. The stock is a Gi fiberglass stock that has not been reinforced in any way. I used my high Bassett and my SWFA scope with a Bradley cheek rest.

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I only had 15 rounds to do a function check. All rounds functioned without any issue. Accuracy was superb for being un-bedded. After dialing in the scope, I shot a 3-shot group which measured 0.613" followed up by a 5-shot group which measured 1.3" at 100 yards.
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While I was policing brass, I noticed three cases had split along the body. After a quick internet search, I found that others have had this issue with S&B 6.5 ammo, so I'm chalking it up to a bad lot of brass. I'll be loading more ammo in the 130 and 140 grain range and testing this barrel more in the future. I might throw it in my spare JAE and do some more testing in it.
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The second barrel is a 308 ICR barrel. I removed the Satern Liberty 5R barrel from my vintage sniper rifle and installed the LW 308 ICR. I still need to re-bed the rifle since the barrel is changed, but it is still shooting very well. I took this picture after I removed the test scope and the cheek rest.
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I consider it a win when both rifles are shooting right around 1 MOA on day one.

Both barrels should begin production immediately.

Tony.
 
#2 · (Edited)
They mistakenly sent me 6.5 in conventional rifling with 6 lands.
Honest question: What's unconventional about 6.5CM with 6 lands? That's what Criterion does, too.

edit: found my own answer
Frank Green @ Bartlein Barrels said:
For the most part accuracy and barrel life wise the style and number of grooves doesn’t make a difference. Some say if you want hardcore accuracy you want conventional style rifling. Basically where the lands meet the groove with a 90 degree corner. I only agree with this in regards to the short jacket 6mm bullets in the 65-70gr range for short range BR guns. That’s because of the short bearing surface of those bullets and it’s worse with a boat tail bullet but once you start getting to the longer/heavier bullets this seems to disappear.

That being said it’s been proven by bullet and ammo makers that the 5R rifling does help fight bullet failure and helps long range accuracy. This was just confirmed to me earlier last year so it’s not just me making the claim on my own. Obermeyer also said years ago that it was better but I never heard what he based that on. How does it help? The odd number of lands and grooves as the bullet makes the jump from the case to the rifling distorts and upsets the bullet jacket less. You don’t get the same benefit per say from a 3 groove barrel even though it’s a odd number groove barrel. Usually the 3 groove barrels the lands are really wide. Like a 50/50 land to groove ratio. So you still have part of one land opposing another land.

We’ve made barrels in 2 groove, 3 groove, 4 groove, 5 groove (conventional), 5R, 6, and 8 groove in standard calibers and again accuracy wise I don’t see a difference. I do believe in the 5R rifling helping fight bullet failure. Again this is more of a problem in the smaller calibers like 6mm.

We’ve also made 7 groove barrels in 50cal and 10 groove barrels in 20mm as well as the 12 groove type barrels for ammunition test barrels as well in given spec calibers.

Other places like AI did a test around 2 years ago for they’re team barrels. They did a test with half of the barrels being 4 groove and half being with 5R style rifling. After the test they went to all 5R rifling and the main caliber they are all running is 6mm.

I just did a another round of quick testing and it’s early in the testing in 6.5CM with a barrel I rebored/rerifled from 22cal to 6.5mm. 5R rifling and 1-8 twist. Shot Hornady 135gr ATIPs from 117 yards to 430 yards and was getting accuracy from .21moa to .32moa. Barrel only has 36 rounds on it as of right now.

Later, Frank
 
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#5 ·
Yes, it will be offered in heavy and medium, standard rifling and ICR. The gas port is a reduced size. Today was the test that answered if it would work. I don't remember the size that we decided to go with, but it is smaller than the 308 gas port size. Op-rod guide was a Sadlak from LRB.

Tony.
 
#11 · (Edited)
I have had similar issues with S&B rifle brass and its quality varies wildly lot to lot. Its basically one shot ammo and brass is high adventure to reload, especially in a gas operated rifle. I've had case head separation on first reloading of S&B brass in my 308 Tikka.

I have the SWFA 18x Super Sniper on my M1A. Is been nothing but spectacular and that scope had well over 3000 rds of 190 gr 308 hot loads under its belt before I took it off my Tikka and transplanted to M1A.

That 18x has over 10 yrs of hard use on 1000 yd line. Don't take my word for it that SWFA makes a Chevy truck tough scope for hard use, the mere fact Tony Ben has one ought to rattle your cage SWFA Super Sniper is a great scope.

I can see and shoot at skeet birds from 1000 yd line just as good with that SWFA as with my Vortex Razor Gen II.
 
#12 ·
Careful with the S&B ammo, the 140gr FMJ and 156gr SP 's have a odd bullet ogive profile, that can jam into the lands , on short throated 6.5CM chambers.
So I guess just something to watch for.
"If" you see any Hornady American Gunner 140gr, that round has produced exceptional results out of many of my 6.5CM AR's. It isn't the highest BC bullet out there... but at 100-300yds groups can be VERY cost effective.
 
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#13 ·
IF S&B ammo is problematic in semi auto rifles, it should get your attention ! Most here will know what I digress about below but the new shooter / owner of M1/M1A rifles...read slowly and absorb.

The M1 and M1A are ammo sensitive. All ammo is not M1 / M!A ammo. Doesn't matter if its 3006, 308 or 6.5 caliber. Any ammo off the shelf is not always suitable for the M1/ M1A rifle.

Yes..ogives do matter !

We never and I mean never had all the drama of Kaboom, out of battery detonations with the M1 or M14 because we were issued the correct ammunition in the military. Once such rifles / clones of such rifles got to civilian hands, all these dangerous ammunition driven incidents appeared ...two parts to that. Civilians not properly trained on the rifle and Civilians using wrong ammunition or faulty ammunitions (kind description of crap hand loads).

Same can be said for the AR which can have same issues with wrong ammo.
 
#14 ·
No offense intended but maybe change the title to " break in " rather than "test" and wait until you are set up appropriately to conduct a proper evaluation. The entire first post is an alibi list. Let the rifle settle in after rebuild and bring an appropriate quantity of similarly appropriate ammunition when you are attempting to analyze the barrels quality.
No need to rush things! .02
Joe
 
#15 ·
I shot this 10rd group with 155gr Hornady ELD's today in a rifle Ted Brown built for me with an LRB M25 receiver and hvy kreiger cro/moly 1/10 am trying to get broken in
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#16 ·
Very nice to see that they are now producing the barrel. I still need to get my SA M1A dialed in after all the build up that I've done to her. Glad to know that if I want to switch from the SA NM barrel, that this one in .308 is available from Lothar-Walther. Looking forward to seeing more results from your rifles when you have a chance to use better ammo. Keep up the great work Tony and thanks for sharing the info. Happy early Memorial Day and Semper Fi.