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As for the future of the M14 in the military, since the US brought em back to fill a gap during Iraq, I’d ask: depends on the nature of the next major fight the US gets into.
I have posted on this in the past, but all 6200 of the US Army’s M14 EBR-RIs Squad Designated Rifles were withdrawn from service a couple of years ago and have been replaced with 6200 of the new H&K M110A1 SDMR rifles on a one-for-one basis, per the DoD. As for those M14 EBR-RI rifles that were made at Rock Island between 2009-2012? Apparently sold off via the Foreign Military Sales (FMS) program. Many if not most are likely gone at this point, and they ain’t coming back…not sure folks understand that the US Army has retired and disposed of their M14s circa 2022.

 

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Can the AR15 do this?
View attachment 482982

Also - I was on Okinawa in the 80's. How is Gate-2 street?
Mine could it was transnational, it identified as an Russian AK. As long as you didn’t try to feed it that black hills mk262 it would run like a raped ape.
Gate 2 is still busy as ever. A lot of places got crushed pretty hard by the lockdown, but I look at Oki as the Florida of Japan and they seem pretty over it. When they fully opens back up you should come back out, this place is massively built up even since my first time stepping on deck here in 2013. I imagine it would be a night and day difference from when you were here.
People are still nice, food is still great, water is still beautiful, and for craps sake still super hot.
 

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..and they have not bulldozed 'whisper alley'? 😄
 

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I’m of the for the most part of the mindset that its the Indian not the arrow. If I got issued an m14 again I wouldn’t feel undergunned or that I was at a disadvantage. Are there new things out there, yeah but it will meet mission. Obsolete is a word mostly used by someone that want to sell you the next best thing.
 

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Obsolete is a really vague term... All firearms do exactly the same thing and that is to spit a projectile out the front end. Some do it better than others, but as an all around rifle the M14 does it quite well and seriously as good as any of the newer rifles today. Every rifle has it's good points and not so good points. I just can't think of many not so good points when it comes to the M14 or it's 7.62mm ammunition. It's accurate to ranges most shooters can't even see and powerful enough to be effective at it's longest ranges.
 

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The M14 in a military sense is obsolete because it is made of wood and steel, every thing new for our or any other military is going to made of Plastic and aluminum. As a sporting arm and collectable firearm wood and steel is still a acceptable medium. I think the M14/M1A will be with us for awhile as will the AR rifles.

eQ
 

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Other than the Navy (and possibly the Coast Guard), here’s where one sees military M14s circa 2022:

“Besides the Corps of Cadets at West Point, Annapolis and the Air Force Academy, the 3rd United States Infantry Regiment (The Old Guard) keepers of Arlington National Cemetery is the sole remaining regular United States Army combat field unit where the M14 is still issued as the standard rifle.”

Fyi link to US Army handbook re current systems. Page 300-301 covers the Next Generation Squad Automatic Weapon systems that was recently awarded to SIG:
Next Generation Squad Automatic Weapon (NGSAW) is on pages 300-301.
PSR (Precison Sniper Rife) is on pages 318-319. (Recently awarded to Barnett).

The word “M14” is only mentioned once in this 420 page handbook, and only in the context of platforms that use 7.62 NATO ammo, but as I have noted, it is no longer a weapon system that will be fielded by the US Army. Any talk of it being used again by the US Army is fantasy at this point. This is not 2003-2010 when two wars were raging and required the M14 to be pulled from storage - it’s 2022 and millions of dollars have been spent by the US Army with two contract awards to H&K and now SIG for modern, suppressed squad automatic rifles that have 600 plus meter effective ranges. (Again, M14s are just not supportable for US military purposes, so they were sold off via FMS program).

Bottom-line: If the US went to war tomorrow, every US Army Infantry Squad Designated Marksman would be issued one of these new H&K made M110A1 rifles along with its 1-6x scope and sound suppressor, along with M118LR precision ammo (and possibly other 7.62 ammo). As of 2020-2022, the M110A1 SDMR a fully supportable and effective 600 plus meter rifle system. It finally retired the M14 EBRs as far as the US Army is concerned…
Product Building Engineering Symmetry Metal


So, the M14 is fully retired and has been formally replaced with modern platforms, and the new 6.8x51mm ammo is what the Army is moving forward as of 2022 for infantry soldiers.

That Army document notes that for FY23 the XM5 program involves “Reduced range ammunition is fielded,” as I guess the Army believes not all infantry soliders with an XM5/M5 rifle will need the high-pressure/high-velocity 6.8x51mm round that has a 1200 meter effective range. (The heavier XM250 light machine gun will of course use the high pressure cartridge for its intended ranges).
 

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Discussion Starter · #55 ·
Gents,

I'm going to take the term "obsolete" out of my dictionary. It seems some react poorly to the term. In the future I'll use the term "dated" when describing the M-14. It certainly has lost none of it's effectiveness. As noted, it's the indian, not the arrow...

Besides, I've still got several of the darn things to build...

Wes
 

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The question is obsolete to who? For the military - it basically has been for some time. For me - it's a wonderful gun I can support myself and with a community of enthusiasts. Try getting a part for your SCAR 17 from FN and you'll appreciated this statement more. It also doesn't attract as much attention with the anti-gunners.

If I could buy an XM5 (not the $8K variant) I might, particularly if SIG actually releases a 308 barrel to go along with it. I have MCX and MPX and I like much better than my SCARs. Having recently tested an APC308, I might sell them all for a pair of those.
 

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I have been reading more of how the US Army is on their way to removing the 5.56mm and 7.62 NATO rounds. Looks like they went Creedmoor on us. The 277 Sig Fury has impressive specs. But I am not so sold. The problem is the barrel life - those Creedmoor-looking cartridges are known for chewing barrels. If they want to defeat body armors, why not just use a more robust projectile instead of designing a whole new cartridge and new powder that chews barrels? Are the brass leadership thinking we will not be in battle long enough to chew up a barrel before the next change? I don't get it -

Please someone explain this to me?
 
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Are the brass leadership thinking we will not be in battle long enough to chew up a barrel before the next change? I don't get it -

Please someone explain this to me?
Am enjoying this whole thread... and can't necessarily "explain" it to you but agree with your concern. After the "brass/leadership" told Brandon that the Russkies would be in Kiev in 3 days, my fear is that your observation -- that they are thinking "we will not be in battle long enough..." -- is exactly what they are thinking, and what scares me is that you may be right...
 

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This reminds me of the time when the brass removed the gatling gun from the F4 fighter planes. And put it right back after they got their tails chewed in dogfights.
 

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Gents,

I'm going to take the term "obsolete" out of my dictionary. It seems some react poorly to the term. In the future I'll use the term "dated" when describing the M-14. It certainly has lost none of it's effectiveness. As noted, it's the indian, not the arrow...

Besides, I've still got several of the darn things to build...

Wes
On the contrary, Wes. I think “obsolete” was the heart of the discussion and debate. That’s what got the wheels turning. Perhaps it just needed elaboration. For what purpose?

I know when I walk into the local gun stores and look at semi auto .308s, there ain’t much. It’s an AR10, an M1a, and maybe some Zastava or something.

I’ve been told by the stores that AR10s are “finicky.” The M1a is still the one unless you have $4k to drop on a SCAR or HK 716.
 
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