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I agree that the new M5 and cartridge are going nowhere. I would refer you to the FBI and the 10mm…
Is the M-14 obsolete or will it stand the tests of time?
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Obsolete is a bit strong, but the design is certainly outdated.
It certainly works, and works well, and there's no arguing with success. However, in comparison to many newer designs firing the same class of cartridge and intended for either short, close-in to medium range tactical work or long-range precision fire, the M14 is past its prime. The M14 is too heavy and the gas-tappet operating system is needlessly complicated and not "naturally" accurate. It was the pinnacle or ultimate evolution of the M1 design, which was the best of the best in its day, but 1920-30's tech can only be taken so far.
However, the aesthetic appeal and the challenge of getting the very most from it will endure, I think. Being a really good shot with the M14 demands mastering the basic fundamentals and wringing the absolute best from what it can give. On the side of pure aesthetics, nothing beats beautiful wood and steel. If you can shoot an M14 really well, you can shoot anything. The reverse is not necessarily true, and therein lies the M14's technical appeal as a "fine shootin' iron."
So, don't get me wrong. I love the M14 design and platform. It is, in my opinion, one of, if not the, most beautiful semi-auto rifles ever made. However, if I was still a door-kicker looking for bone and body smashing terminal effects that ignore light cover and most body armor or a sniper looking for the best in long-range precision potential, the M14 wouldn't be on my radar.
It certainly works, and works well, and there's no arguing with success. However, in comparison to many newer designs firing the same class of cartridge and intended for either short, close-in to medium range tactical work or long-range precision fire, the M14 is past its prime. The M14 is too heavy and the gas-tappet operating system is needlessly complicated and not "naturally" accurate. It was the pinnacle or ultimate evolution of the M1 design, which was the best of the best in its day, but 1920-30's tech can only be taken so far.
However, the aesthetic appeal and the challenge of getting the very most from it will endure, I think. Being a really good shot with the M14 demands mastering the basic fundamentals and wringing the absolute best from what it can give. On the side of pure aesthetics, nothing beats beautiful wood and steel. If you can shoot an M14 really well, you can shoot anything. The reverse is not necessarily true, and therein lies the M14's technical appeal as a "fine shootin' iron."
So, don't get me wrong. I love the M14 design and platform. It is, in my opinion, one of, if not the, most beautiful semi-auto rifles ever made. However, if I was still a door-kicker looking for bone and body smashing terminal effects that ignore light cover and most body armor or a sniper looking for the best in long-range precision potential, the M14 wouldn't be on my radar.
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I love the M14 for the mere fact that it does NOT eat where it sh*ts. It is a very clean rifle - you just gotta brush the bolt face once in a while. You can run mag after mag after mag...all day long.
YOu cannot do that w/ the AR platform -
YOu cannot do that w/ the AR platform -
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The fouling of the gas impingement style AR is a dirty one to say the least, however, the piston version is quite clean in operation and those making claims that a piston one is not as accurate as the other one is pretty much nonsense, they are very accurate with the right loads as most firearms are. I have an LRB M14SA/NM rifle, and it is an excellent rifle, but such rifles are and haven't been a primary service rifle for decades and likely not to return in any meaningful way.
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Some very interesting points.
Things to pop in my head inspired by such...
'Obsolete' can have a lot of meanings. If you have a hammer, and it hammers, but another hammer fits better on a tool belt of other stuff... Is it obsolete? For a crew wearing a particular tool belt, yes. It doesn't mean that somebody who's learned how to use it cannot drive a nail just as well as they ever did.
I watched the 'Forgotten Weapons' evaluation of the M5, and he did a pretty interesting examination of it.
FW-M5
It seems like the platform may perform well to take over the capabilities where the M14 had been pulled back into service for niche applications, with better accuracy, AR type ergonomics, good reliability (at least in casual use), a standardized high quality versatile optics package, and a far more compact package, suppression included. It also looks like you could train an armorer who could maintain it relatively quickly to do fast and easy service on them.
I'm skeptical that it will become ubiquitous as the do everything for some of the same reasons that the M14 went out of dominance, because of the total weight, both of the rifle, and the ammunition, in which case it is very similar to the M14.
Will it stick? My intuitive guess is that it's got a pretty good chance, so long as it proves reliable and production of rifles, ammunition, and whatever else prove viable, and I cannot see any reason why they couldn't be, but I don't see a lot. There's always poltics...
As far as how quickly the M14 disappears altogether, whether pushed out completely and explicitly in the near future by the M5, or whether they simply fade out like an 80's pop song, I guess we'll see. But I love my hammers.
Things to pop in my head inspired by such...
'Obsolete' can have a lot of meanings. If you have a hammer, and it hammers, but another hammer fits better on a tool belt of other stuff... Is it obsolete? For a crew wearing a particular tool belt, yes. It doesn't mean that somebody who's learned how to use it cannot drive a nail just as well as they ever did.
I watched the 'Forgotten Weapons' evaluation of the M5, and he did a pretty interesting examination of it.
FW-M5
It seems like the platform may perform well to take over the capabilities where the M14 had been pulled back into service for niche applications, with better accuracy, AR type ergonomics, good reliability (at least in casual use), a standardized high quality versatile optics package, and a far more compact package, suppression included. It also looks like you could train an armorer who could maintain it relatively quickly to do fast and easy service on them.
I'm skeptical that it will become ubiquitous as the do everything for some of the same reasons that the M14 went out of dominance, because of the total weight, both of the rifle, and the ammunition, in which case it is very similar to the M14.
Will it stick? My intuitive guess is that it's got a pretty good chance, so long as it proves reliable and production of rifles, ammunition, and whatever else prove viable, and I cannot see any reason why they couldn't be, but I don't see a lot. There's always poltics...
As far as how quickly the M14 disappears altogether, whether pushed out completely and explicitly in the near future by the M5, or whether they simply fade out like an 80's pop song, I guess we'll see. But I love my hammers.
you should ask this on a forum where everyone doesn't own one right?
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I don't mind when they call my M14 rifle obsolete. Just don't call it a relic - coz it will take offense. 😁
I really dislike the term obsolete. Some say bolt guns are obsolete, yet still millions are sold.
As a primary service weapon? Maybe, although these systems don't seem to be getting lighter.
I look at it similarly to the Scout rifle concept... It comes down to application. For me, being a family man in a rural area it's the perfect weapon for me.
Serviceable to the extent I need it to be. Easy to inventory spare parts. A tendency to hold minute of bad guy even with a worn out barrel. Chambers a round that can do anything my skill set will allow. It's far from obsolete. Easier to make run than many AR platforms, comparable reliability to anything else out there. Sufficient modularity for my aspirations.
Now for a fire team in a military setting? It's probably not the weapon. For me... It's THE weapon.
As a primary service weapon? Maybe, although these systems don't seem to be getting lighter.
I look at it similarly to the Scout rifle concept... It comes down to application. For me, being a family man in a rural area it's the perfect weapon for me.
Serviceable to the extent I need it to be. Easy to inventory spare parts. A tendency to hold minute of bad guy even with a worn out barrel. Chambers a round that can do anything my skill set will allow. It's far from obsolete. Easier to make run than many AR platforms, comparable reliability to anything else out there. Sufficient modularity for my aspirations.
Now for a fire team in a military setting? It's probably not the weapon. For me... It's THE weapon.
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I now have more time to type. Just be advised that I am on my 2nd boilermaker, using Lionshead and Fleischmann's.
The sun has set on the M14, FAL and G3. Those of us who served during the Cold War will always have a a place in our heart for these rifles. Southeast Asia, Central America, West Africa. These were the weapons that represented the Free World. The "cutting edge of the sword of democracy," to quote Reagan.
The armies of the world have given up on these platforms. I suspect it is due to prohibitive manufacturing costs and the limited ability to adapt to modern accessories. In contrast, the AK47 (1947) and AR15 (1959) continue to serve at the global level. There is obviously no accounting for poor taste. 🤪
The sun has set on the M14, FAL and G3. Those of us who served during the Cold War will always have a a place in our heart for these rifles. Southeast Asia, Central America, West Africa. These were the weapons that represented the Free World. The "cutting edge of the sword of democracy," to quote Reagan.
The armies of the world have given up on these platforms. I suspect it is due to prohibitive manufacturing costs and the limited ability to adapt to modern accessories. In contrast, the AK47 (1947) and AR15 (1959) continue to serve at the global level. There is obviously no accounting for poor taste. 🤪
Obsolete for what purpose?
Modern warfare? Sure. Though there are about 190 countries that would gladly take them.
Hog hunting? No. It’s a reliable semi-auto .308. It’s ideal.
If I had a cabin in the woods with a 500 yard lawn, and there was a zombie apocalypse, and I had an AR, an AK, and my M1A, my 22” barrel would be getting warm, quick.
I‘ll tell ya one thing, Captain Phillips would have been well served with one basic, 1960s ”obsolete” M14.
Modern warfare? Sure. Though there are about 190 countries that would gladly take them.
Hog hunting? No. It’s a reliable semi-auto .308. It’s ideal.
If I had a cabin in the woods with a 500 yard lawn, and there was a zombie apocalypse, and I had an AR, an AK, and my M1A, my 22” barrel would be getting warm, quick.
I‘ll tell ya one thing, Captain Phillips would have been well served with one basic, 1960s ”obsolete” M14.
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Obsolete NOT, No , are You Crazy or Out of Your ————— —— Mind
But the availability of good quality parts hinders the platform. Something was liked, desirable or when I ——— I’m going own one Is NOT Obsolete When you mention Springfield what comes to mind Trap doors,03’s,03A3’s,M’1’& M14’s Mention 45’s Colt Single Actions or 1911’s. Are they Obsolete? NO just more effort needed to be an owner. The M14 type is a Allusive Mistress. IF YOU LOOK AT THE FORUM You Will See How Many Have Been Seduced
Wes
Confession is Good for the Soul BUT Bad for the reputation
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But the availability of good quality parts hinders the platform. Something was liked, desirable or when I ——— I’m going own one Is NOT Obsolete When you mention Springfield what comes to mind Trap doors,03’s,03A3’s,M’1’& M14’s Mention 45’s Colt Single Actions or 1911’s. Are they Obsolete? NO just more effort needed to be an owner. The M14 type is a Allusive Mistress. IF YOU LOOK AT THE FORUM You Will See How Many Have Been Seduced
Wes
Confession is Good for the Soul BUT Bad for the reputation
un identified source out
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Man, some of these replies are FIRE! I love it.
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Sure, it’s pretty near obsolete in small arms race of modern armies — certainly as a standard-issue infantry rifle, and I suppose arguably as a DMR (I’ll defer to those with first-hand experience on that one).
The Thompson and Garand are obsolete in that sense too. My question is, So what? They’d still kick some serious a** in a SHTF scenario for civilians in need of powerful self-defense.
As for the future of the M14 in the military, since the US brought em back to fill a gap during Iraq, I’d ask: depends on the nature of the next major fight the US gets into.
The open plains of eastern Europe, urban streets of Taiwan… the dominant terrain of land warfare will continue to change as geopolitical balances shifts, and it remains to be seen which small arms will perform best. I wouldn’t rule out the return of the M14 as a support weapon in an urgent situation if the US gets into a messy conventional fight in the next decade or two (war with Iran, etc. god forbid).
The Thompson and Garand are obsolete in that sense too. My question is, So what? They’d still kick some serious a** in a SHTF scenario for civilians in need of powerful self-defense.
As for the future of the M14 in the military, since the US brought em back to fill a gap during Iraq, I’d ask: depends on the nature of the next major fight the US gets into.
The open plains of eastern Europe, urban streets of Taiwan… the dominant terrain of land warfare will continue to change as geopolitical balances shifts, and it remains to be seen which small arms will perform best. I wouldn’t rule out the return of the M14 as a support weapon in an urgent situation if the US gets into a messy conventional fight in the next decade or two (war with Iran, etc. god forbid).
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It probably succeeded once, so the Stoner fans have it on their calendars... But I sure as hell wouldn't go for it haha.
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