I have used them on a 165 lb. deer at around 225 yards and several hogs at 75 to 200 yards. I have had excellent results so far with one shot per kill. I am thinking about dropping down to 150 grain for flatter trajectory.

 

Now I am no expert on this but...all my sniper buddies swear against anything lighter than 168 grn. Even for serious target practice. According to them anything lighter is more acceptable to gravity and wind. 145 to 149 grn is just a fun round. Wait till prvi 175 grn comes back on the market for $12 per 20. Lighter is not better, just cheaper.

 

Well your sniper buddies must not be familiar with the Palma class shooting competitions. Palma competition shooters use the 155 grain SMK bullet in a course of fire that goes from 800 to 1000 yards in 100 yard increments.

Gravity has an effect on all projectiles, regardless of their weight. But in point of fact, it has a greater effect on the slower, heavier bullets. The key is time of flight. Faster speed means less time of flight from the muzzle to the target. Less time of flight means that gravity and wind will have less of an effect on the point of impact. Selecting a bullet is a balancing act between what you want it to do and what it's capable of doing.

 

165/168gr bullets are my favorite in the 308. I have shot a lot of game with several different 165/168gr bullets, and all have worked great.

However truth is I have shot several animals with 150 and 180gr bullets in the 308 as well, and they killed just as good.

I have killed several black near, only one with a 308, a single shot rifle, and I used a 180gr Woodleigh bullet, mainly because they shoot great in the single shot.

I would not hesitate to hunt black bear with a 308 and Federal 165 gr Fusion.

 

The only reason Palma shooters shoot the 155 gr bullet is because it is the heaviest bullet the RULES allow.

They use bolt action rifles with 30 to 32 inch barrels, with the 155 gr bullet loaded out past factory 308 loaded round lengths, to get as much powder in the case as they can.

And they load their rounds pretty hot.

Their rifles are single shots.

Trust me, if Palma shooters could load, say a 185 Berger VLD, they would...

 

Your remarks are totally irrelevant to the point I was trying to make, which is that the 155gr SMK in .308 is perfectly capable of hitting a 1000 yards target. There is no secret rule that says only bullets that weigh 168 grains or more can hit targets at that range.

 

According to Dr. Gary Roberts, the terminal performance is VERY good.

 

Great info gents. I think I will stick with the Fusion for now. Federal OTM 168 shoot very well aslo.

 

I believe the aforementioned sniper fellows also said not to use anything other than 168 grain, even for serious practice.

That statement baffles me currently.

do they mean for sniper team drills? or was this advice for you (and by way of this forum us?)

I can see a US sniper telling their civilian friend "we use 168 gr bullets, thats all we use...even for serious practice"

but for me , members of the forum, I believe there is value in any round that will go bang.

Granted serious match shooters need to be as meticulous as the Military guys with their loads (actually more I am sure) But i am not to that level of shooting yet.


all of that was in response to the OP considering switching to a lighter round for better trajectory.

I think that would be fine, I can imagine using a round with a flatter trajectory in hunting specifically so you have easier round placement when popping shots at groups of hogs 1-300 yards, the whole point of wich is to let the round defeat gravity (a bigger factor than wind I'm sure any shooter will agree) and be able to get your shot off with less calculation.

This is just my rationale, and I am NOT an expert.

 

Usually even 168gr bullets from 308 factory loads or handloads with bullets seated to factory length in fired in 22 to 26" barrels will not always stay supersonic to 1000 yards.

Back in the day the Sierra 180gr Matchking, and the 180gr Gameking were made with a long boattail, similar to the USGI 172 Match bullet.
These bullets in loads suitable for the M14 would stay supersonic to 1000 yards.

THEN Sierra changed the boattail on their 180gr MK bullet to be the same as the 168 MK.

All of a sudden, they would not stay supersonic to 1000 yards either.

However the hunting bullets kept the long boattail and some of us used them at 1000.

For those of you that have not shot a lot at 1000 yards, when a bullet goes subsonic before it gets to 100 yards the vertical dispersion increases tremendiously, and many of the bullets hit the target sideways.

Many that shot the M14 at 1000 yards, used special set up M14's that had their barrels long throated, and shot hot loads, as at 1000 you single load only.

I used to try to get all the USGI 173gr Match ammo I could. It did not shoot as good to 600 yards as Federal Match or my 168gr MK handloads, but it shot better at 1000 yards as it ALWAYS remained supersonic.

In my Any/Any 1000 yard bolt rifle I used the old Sierra 180MK, and when they dried up I used Berger 185 VLD's.

I woud not even consider using 155 Palma bullets at 1000 unless I had a real Palma rifle with at least a 30" barrel.

The Fedeal 168gr Match ammo will make it to 1000 on some days, but the next day if weather conditions change they will hit sideways at 1000. I have had it happen many times as our Issue ammo was Federal Match, and we shot to 1000 yards on a regular basis.

Federal Match did shoot great to 800 yards on any day, but it was hit and miss at 1000, that is why after Sierra messed up the 180 MK they eventually came out with the 175gr bullet mainly for the Military for Sniper ammo.

I did have some input with the Military development of their 175gr ammo, they tried to use ball powder and had too much verticle dispersion. They were advised to switch to an extruded powder. They did not want to do so because of the ease of measuring ball powder and the expense, of the extruded powder, but when they did so the verticle dispersion went away, and the ammo was a lot more accurate.

 

Sierra developed the 155gr Palma bullet because when the International Palma Matches were going to be held in the USA their 150 gr bullet was not up to 100 yards, so Jensens, the people that got the contract to load all of the Palma ammo for all the teams was going to use the Nosler 150gr Ballistic Tip bullet.

Sierra wanted their bullet to be used so they developed the 155 Palma bullet, again 155 gr being the heaviest bullet allowed for International Palma Matches.

It is not a good bullet for1000 yards in a "regular" rifle with a 22 to 26" barrel, when loaded to magazine length.

 

Good gosh NE450N02, talk about over-thinking something and beating it to death, my point was simply that 155gr bullets will work out to 1000 yards I wasn't trying to compare them against the performance of any other bullet. You're beating a dead horse that nobody rode to the show.

 

Just some advice, but usually if you ask snipers for a reccomendation of a load or rifle, you WILL end up with sniper related items.