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The 7th on the list like the scope - Leupold Mk 4. I remember even shooting with it a couple of times when I was on duty in 2017. This site even has a night vision mode, and it was my only sight with this mode. By the way, the Army taught me one trick, if I may say so. To see the terrain from the very beginning, one should not use a rifle but a telescope on a tripod. With a tripod, it is much easier to do this. Here, you can read about it here: 10 Best Spotting Scope Tripods (Ultimate Review List) - Ballachy. Fascinating information.
 
Discussion starter · #64 · (Edited)
Updating this older thread with a 1996 picture to validate the following statement:

The USMC Unertl 10x sniper scope is clearly not an M14-based optical system. That said, anecdotal reporting by Marine Corps veterans’ state that during the 1990s some Unertl 10x scopes were used on an ‘ad hoc’ basis for M14 DMR type rifles for use by anti-terrorism units such as FAST Company, and/or used during the testing of early ‘test bed’ or ‘prototype’ M14 DMR rifles at Quantico, VA. (Note: The final DMR rifle specification utilized the Leupold Mk 4, fixed 10x optic; scope #8 in this thread...)
A USMC veteran who completed DMR training provided this 1996 picture of a prototype USMC M14 DMR with the Unertl 10X scope (normally issued on the M40A1 rifles), along with a black McMillan M2A stock. It's the only picture I have seen to validate the anecdotals about the early DMR rifles before the Technical Package was finalized in 1998 and the rifles were built beginning in 2000:

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Picture info:
"Pic was taken in 1996 on a range at Dam Neck after we performed a live fire coordinated assault for a USN video crew."

His description of the DMR rifles:
"I completed the Marine Corps Security Forces Designated Marksmen course at Dam Neck, Virginia in 1997. Our Battalion issued two types of DM rifles - the M-14 and a Galil based DMR variant which had a folding stock and came in a tan triangular case. I had the M-14. The build was by the Precision Weapons Section at Quantico using NM parts in a (black) Macmillan pistol grip stock. I had a Leopold MK4 fixed 10X with mildot reticle in a Brookfield mount, although a few had Leopold 3x9 variable power scopes and a couple had Unertls. Much preferred the MK4. The M-14 rifle was issued with a drag bag, torque wrench, spotting scope for each 2 man team and ammo log book, and ANPVS 14, which made the rig a bear to keep upright. Issued ammo was M-118 and we were told 3 MOA minimum accuracy for cold bore and my rifle was better than that. Cold bore was about 1.5“ at 1 o’clock. I believe each rifle was returned to PWS for rework at the 2200 round mark."

Just adding a little more to the body of knowledge re official optic systems, and in this case quasi-official/prototype optics, used on various precision military M14s over time.
 
Discussion starter · #66 · (Edited)
The scope mounts were BPT per his email. He does not recall what rings were used, as noted:

"Sorry - I never noted which rings were used, but they used Brookfield mounts which was the lowest level of disassembly we were allowed to perform on the optics. The Unertl and Leupold Mark 4 10X were much preferred over the Leupold 3-9x variable power scopes."

I suspect rings were likely on hand at PWS that fit the height requirements to clear the M14 rear sight with the Unertl scope, which might have been the same Barrett steel rings used with 10X Unertls on the 50 BMG Barretts. (They would pre-date the GG&G stuff). A retired 2112 that told me about these early DMRs said they were testing multiple configurations re optics/mounts/barrels in the mid-1990s. I never did get to see his notes from that era.

BTW, John Unertl made a small number of M14 prototype scope mounts, but I have never seen them. It's quite possible that the USMC tested some of the Unertl mounts on those DMR's as well. That said, they typically had BPTs on the early DMR rifles as far back in 1992…and up till 1996-7.

A few years later, in the 2000s the Unertl's with these type of M40A3 rings with 1" reducers were used on the M107s (GG&G or Badger rings) - but back in 1996 they would have been 4 screw rings front and back. Possibly the old Barrett rings, as GG&G came a little later, and same goes for BO M40A3 rings. Something like this set-up is my best guess - but with a BPT mount instead, and back in 1996 you wouldn't yet see 6-screw front scope rings like this design.
454191
 
Discussion starter · #68 · (Edited)
He didn't say re barrels. My guess is medium weight Barnett/Douglas based on used examples from the mid-1990s marked USMC, but it quite likely PWS also tested Krieger barrels too during that time - since that barrel was officially selected in the Technical Package circa the summer of 1998. Could they have used/tested others like Hart barrels? Yes. Circa mid-1990s multiple permutations were tested and evaluated per a USMC 2112 who was active during that time and worked on the rifles. However, once the DMR Technical Package was developed, standardization occurred re the final configuration and NSNs for each part were assigned ~ 1998.
 
Discussion starter · #72 · (Edited)
usmcsgt0331 suggested these pictures be posted in this thread. With no knowledge about these scopes myself I have partially quoted his reply regarding his experience with these scopes below,
Well, since an opinion is being asked, heres my understanding: Marty designed the DMR rings specifically for the USMC with the odd-ball 1.031” height, and they were/are always marked “USMC” on them, so it’s easy to spot DMR rings:
Here’s what they look like:
Image

…so the rings on those two painted scows are not for a USMC DMR. (They are still great rings, just not “100% correct” for a DMR replica).

The original Leupold scopes appear to be G or H suffix (1999-2000 era). That said, a 2004 dated Leupold Mk 4 scope could certainly have been a replacement for a damaged scope off a DMR, or used on any newly made DMRs in that era. The 2010 dated scope on the other hand is too late for a DMR rifle, as the USMC had moved to the M39 by then, which used S&B scopes, or possibly a Premier Heritage scope.

For an accurate USMC M14 DMR replica, the 2004 dated Leupold scope and proper DMR/“USMC” marked rings would be my choice, along with the SEI scope mount, as used on my replica as seen in picture. (Both the DMR rings and SEI scope mount are still in production and easy to find, unlike the original McMillan M2A stock). My 2cts.
 
Dear Regular Guy:
How long did it take you to find a USMC marked set ?

I think Art L. had a set and I kick myself for not buying them.

I didn't realize G suffix was a possibility. I got a G suffix Leupold, a Swarovski 10x, and the first 3 10x Super Sniper Scopes I ever saw from a GovLiq auction that pickup was at Albany GA. This was 2004-2006.

Back then A LOT of people gossiped that SS scopes were trash, they were Tasco's, etc, etc. I actually remember buying a 16x for $145. I solt it when I sold my AR-10T

PS:Check your conversations sir. Thanks, Vaughn
 
Discussion starter · #74 · (Edited)
Updating this old thread with a former military scope that I recently acquired that was used on the US Navy Mk 14 Mod 2 rifles. These were the last precision M14s made for the US military, and were issued w/ a NightForce NXS 3.5-15x50mm scope. These scopes utilized an illuminated Mil-Dot reticle with hollow dots in the second focal plane. These were part of Nightforce's 'MIL-SPEC’ line of military scopes, but are slightly unique with a Navy marking underneath "NAV-SPEC." Reportedly 250 of the Mk 14 Mod 2 rifles were made circa 2011, and they were also issued with a night vision device as well. (Source of this pic: U.S. M14 Rifle: The Last Steel Warrior (2018) by Frank Iannamico, page 244)
Image

Page 11 of the manual shows the 'NAV-SPEC' markings that are seen on some Naval Surface Warfare (NSW) weapons such as the Mk 14 Mod 2 and some of the 300 WinMag-based Mk 13 sniper rifle scopes (which used a slightly larger NF 5.5-22x56mm scopes, etc.)
Image

Top view, .025 MOA turrets with illuminated Mil-Dot reticle with hollow dots.
Image

Here's the hard to find NAV-SPEC markings, it's a "R" prefix scope.
Image

Just an addition to this thread regarding what was likely the final high performance optic used on US military M14s that were purpose built as Designated Marksman Rifles (DMR). I'll be using this on my M14 Mod 2 replica, which I consider the 'omega' of precision US military M14 rifles.
 
Discussion starter · #75 · (Edited)
Fwiw: The original NF link posted earlier on this thread is now bad, but here's the image/info re their military-spec or "MIL-SPEC" scopes for anyone interested. They went through a lot of testing and inspections. NF added more MIL-SPEC scopes at a later date, but here's their first three variants:
Image
 
Updating this old thread with a former military scope that I recently acquired that was used on the US Navy Mk 14 Mod 2 rifles. These were the last precision M14s made for the US military, and were issued w/ a NightForce NXS 3.5-15x50mm scope. These scopes utilized an illuminated Mil-Dot reticle with hollow dots in the second focal plane. These were part of Nightforce's 'MIL-SPEC’ line of military scopes, but are slightly unique with a Navy marking underneath "NAV-SPEC." Reportedly 250 of the Mk 14 Mod 2 rifles were made circa 2011, and they were also issued with a night vision device as well. (Source of this pic: U.S. M14 Rifle: The Last Steel Warrior (2018) by Frank Iannamico, page 244)
View attachment 476741
Page 11 of the manual shows the 'NAV-SPEC' markings that are seen on some Naval Surface Warfare (NSW) weapons such as the Mk 14 Mod 2 and some of the 300 WinMag-based Mk 13 sniper rifle scopes (which used a slightly larger NF 5.5-22x56mm scopes, etc.)
View attachment 476738
Top view, .025 MOA turrets with illuminated Mil-Dot reticle with hollow dots.
View attachment 476739
Here's the hard to find NAV-SPEC markings, it's a "R" prefix scope.
View attachment 476740
Just an addition to this thread regarding what was likely the final high performance optic used on US military M14s that were purpose built as Designated Marksman Rifles (DMR). I'll be using this on my M14 Mod 2 replica, which I consider the 'omega' of precision US military M14 rifles.
Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
 
Very nice write up! So many clone options :love:
 
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Random, as you know, I worked on .mil optics for nearly 20 of my 23 years in the Navy, and I have to say publicly, this is some GREAT stuff! Kollmorgan always catches my eye when I see one of their old rifle scopes, of a pair of their binoculars, because I worked on a few Kollmorgens myself, but as Type 2D, E or F Periscopes, they would really drag a rifle down, with their 40' + lengths, and finding "scope rings" of 7.5" diameter would be tough, too. While I shot competitively in the Navy, I met a couple genuine characters on the NSWC Crane armorers van, and even got to see and handle some of their efforts for SPECWAR, some prototype stuff that was cool and even cooler to read about a year later in public. I remember asking him once what he thought of the Super Sniper 10X scopes, but he remarked that they had been fooling with them, but he thought the reticle was way too thick for what we were doing. We were shooting long range matches with Crane built 700s and 720s, with that Leupold, but these were 16X fixed Mark IVs with target dot reticles (hey, known fixed ranges, right?).
Anyhow, neat stuff, thank you!
 
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