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Discussion starter · #41 · (Edited)
Neat item (I confess some jealousy given my interest in vintage military optics). Based on the plain white box, it’s either a early dealer sample, or a military scopę that was ‘liberated’ at some point a long time ago, or purchased by military personnel. (Sometimes SOCOM operators are given the opportunity to purchase optics that they use by the manufacturer, and the B&L scope might have been one of the cases).

I'm pretty sure its a military scope box. Those scopes were ordered by Crane in the late 1980s and show up on a variety of Crane built weapons during the 1990s. I built a replica of a Navy M14 sniper rifle around one of those scopes, here's the link if interested: https://m14forum.com/m14/430585-nav...hysical-security-sniper-rifle-port-security-rifle-replica-project-update-2.html

Question: Can you post a picture of the paperwork in that box? As a collector I’m quite curious about these otherwise trivial topics.

FWIW, here's what the commercial box looked like on those old B&L scopes:

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Both rings appear to be Leopold Tactical, but the ones with the flat rectangular surface on top, are the original style from 1980s-1990s, whereas the rings with round tops are the more current style. The early rings used Allen head screws but I noted that both of your rings have (correction) torx head screws, so I suspect the screws were replaced at some point on your early rings.

I hope that info was helpful.
 
Neat item (I confess some jealousy given my interest in vintage military optics). Based on the plain white box, it’s either a early dealer sample, or a military scopę that was ‘liberated’ at some point a long time ago, or purchased by military personnel. (Sometimes SOCOM operators are given the opportunity to purchase optics that they use by the manufacturer, and the B&L scope might have been one of the cases).

I'm pretty sure its a military scope box. Those scopes were ordered by Crane in the late 1980s and show up on a variety of Crane built weapons during the 1990s. I built a replica of a Navy M14 sniper rifle around one of those scopes, here's the link if interested: https://m14forum.com/m14/430585-nav...hysical-security-sniper-rifle-port-security-rifle-replica-project-update-2.html

Question: Can you post a picture of the paperwork in that box? As a collector I’m quite curious about these otherwise trivial topics.

FWIW, here's what the commercial box looked like on those old B&L scopes:

Image


Both rings appear to be Leopold Tactical, but the ones with the flat rectangular surface on top, are the original style from 1980s-1990s, whereas the rings with round tops are the more current style. The early rings used Allen head screws but I noted that both of your rings have (correction) torx head screws, so I suspect the screws were replaced at some point on your early rings.

I hope that info was helpful.
Thanks so much for the response! I was not aware of an older style Leupold tactical ring style. I have had a couple people suggest that the other rings might be Badger Ordnance, but they didn't look quite right to me. I can take some pics of the paperwork for you(it's rather minimal). I'll include them in a future post.
 
Discussion starter · #46 · (Edited)
Recently a guy on snipershde.com posted pictures of a very unique scoped M1A. His gunsmith built a replica of a Vietnam era M14 that has been equipped with a 10X Unertl Varmit scope and a custom made mount. There are a couple of pictures in the back of Peter Senich's book, The One-Round War. A USMC RTE precision armor (MOS 2112) fabricated an M14 mount back in 1967 to hold a long Unertl 10X Varmiter scope.

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Not sure if this is the same rifle or a different rifle with same set-up:
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Here's the picture from sniper's hide and posts from the owner of this unique looking rifle:
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Scope mount was actually built by my gunsmith. He was a Navy Doc assigned to a infantry battalion in Vietnam (think it was 2/5). He couldn't use the commercial M1A mount available today since he needed ones for the Unertl mounts. Built it out of angle iron and was planning on parkerizing it, but opted to spray paint it flat black to provide some authenticity.

His unit had a few of these converted M14, but most were field expedient conversions and not the more familiar Winchester Model 70s.
Here is the creativity of my gunsmith. He couldn't remember the details of the mount and couldn't find drawings. He has a couple of set screws to keep the mount and scope level. The top screw on the first picture is to keep is plumb and the second picture shows the set screw to keep it level. Third picture gives you a different view of the set screw in the second picture. Taking the mount off is a pain so it probably won't be coming off but I'll hit them with some black paint.
Left side of the custom made mount that is probably somewhat based on the mount fabricated in Vietnam by a USMC precision weapon armorer:
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Set-screw that is needed for such a long mount and scope set-up:
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Anyhow, just an fyi post of a replica of a unique "field improvised" civilian scope and scope mount that a USMC armor made in 1967, which was accurately replicated recently by a crafty gunsmith.

The above pictures in Senich’s book are dated “early 1967,” and the first official military issued mount for M14s (AWC Mount my with M84) was sent to Vietnam in March 1967. Just an FYI re chronology.
 
Here's a pair of USMC DMR Leupold scopes with correct mounts and rings (I've got a 3rd set, but it's buried somewhere in one of the safes). The 6 screw fronts rings are exceedingly rare, I know of only a few in existence. These early GGG rings have a small knob on them, so it's easy to tell them apart from later ones. Sets of early 4 screw rings are rare, but they are out there. These early GGG rings are also correct for the very first M40A3 rifles. The scopes have .308 marked dials that turn clockwise and have a BDC reaching out to 900 yards.

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Here's what early packs of the GGG 4 screw rings look like:

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Some kind of Brookfield ring reducers, no idea if they were used on military guns:

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Discussion starter · #51 · (Edited)
UPDATE: Did a trade with another forum member, and picked up a Leupold 3.5-10x40mm tactical scope w/ honest wear that was sold via the govt's auction process in Anniston, AL (Defense Reutilization and Marketing Office or DRMO for short). The model # is 51850, Mil-Dot reticle, 2nd focal plane, non-illuminated. It has a U suffix serial number, so its 2009 dated scope. Nothing too fancy.

(Note: I had previously believed the US military purchased the otherwise identical, but 1st focal plane version of this Leupold scope for the USMC DMRs and US Army M14-EBRs, but I now understand that they purchased these 2nd focal plane scopes. So that is a minor correction to my original post from Dec 2018).

I can't be sure, but my best guess is that it came off a US Army M14 EBR, based on the era of the scope (its likely a little too late for a USMC M14 DMR, but just right for an Army M14 EBR).

Right side with 2011 Leupold Tactical catalog. The scope on the cover of catalog of an Army EBR is the same model scope seen in this picture:

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Parallax adjustment knob has the most wear, probably from the rifle being carried with right side out, with the left side rubbing up against the body/ammo vest, etc:

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M3 turret with BDC for 168 gr BTHP (I've seen also seen these marked: "7.62mm M118LR 175gr", but those might be Mk 11 Mod 0/M110 type scopes):

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So, I think my collection of daytime military optics used on various M14 type rifles is just about complete now.
(Maybe I’ll find a Premier Heritage at some point, but I don’t expect to ever find a ‘USMC M8541’ marked S&B scope.)
I hope folks found this rather long thread/ photo essay on various M14 daytime optics useful or perhaps interesting.
 
Optics not shown but also used on precision military M14s:
On this list I would include the Leupold Mk 4, 3.5-10x, 40mm scope with M2 turrets and Mil-Dot reticle in the First Focal Plane (FFP), as used on both US Army EBRs and USMC DMRs as well. In the late 2000s the Navy Mk 14, Mod 0, 1 and 2 used various optics from Leupold, Nightforce, and Schmidt & Bender; ranging in size from the Coast Guard’s M14T rifle with a 1.1-4x S&B PM ShortDot scope, up to the Navy SEAL’s Mk 14 Mod 2 sniper rifle with the large NightForce NXS 3.5-15x50mm Mil-Spec scope.
S&B ShortDot on an M14, notice how the cantilevered Larue mount (appears to be an SPR-E LT139 mount) is flipped backwards so the cantilever section hangs over the bolt. This had to be mounted like this because the picatinny section the mount attaches to is in front of the receiver, not above it:

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2 military ShortDots in my collection, both have engraved UID tag, M855 BDC elevation turret and Larue SPR-1.5 mount:

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Online photo of a ShortDot with engraved UID and number (these markings are similar to markings on some military S&B 4-16x42 scopes):

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Developmental history of these scopes:

https://www.vickerstactical.com/short-dot.html
 
I just ran across this thread and don’t want to lose it. This comment should keep it in my history but can we sticky some of these very detailed/historical threads? Or how can I do it to my own profile?
 
I just ran across this thread and don’t want to lose it. This comment should keep it in my history but can we sticky some of these very detailed/historical threads? Or how can I do it to my own profile?
You can go into your "User CP" and subscribe to a thread. That way, you'll always be able to come back to it.
 
A friend just picked up this extraordinarily rare M14 scope! Crane bought about half a dozen of these NightForce 2.5-10x24 Recon Nav Spec marked scopes with the NP-1 reticle (before they finally settled on the FC2 reticle) for the Navy EBR's. With only 6 scopes made, this is one of the rarest M14 optics and is probably the only one in private hands. Here's some pics:

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I am really enjoying this thread. Keep it going gentlemen. Wonderful to see somethings that are actually unique and of historical significance.
 
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