[migunshooter]

7mm Rem Mag is a good round to 1000, 7mm is aval in 168gr SMK. its hard on barrels and has more recoil than .308 but very capable.

 

[M11293]

As already noted - .308/7.62x51 is a workhorse, and we are still improving its performance with the new 169 SMK. It has proven very capable as a true sniper rifle in the right hands, many times in many situations.

I love my 30 cals - including 7.62x54R and .30-06. Next step for me would be 300WM.

I'm no sniper or HM, but my very basic .308 bolt rifle has produced solid groups out to 1000 yards (on a good day). I'm satisfied with that. It's not the weak link in the chain at this point.

That is basically my take on the 308. It isn't my favorite cartridge. But it sure works. And it is available.

 

[LimaCharlie]

I love my 308 rifles. If I were in to snipping, it would be the 338 Lapua.

 

[sfoxwell]

I REALLY like the 7-08.
I converted this commercial Mauser 30-06 to a 7-08. It was a fun project. Needs a better stock...

 

[sfoxwell]

7mm Rem Mag is a good round to 1000, 7mm is aval in 168gr SMK. its hard on barrels and has more recoil than .308 but very capable.

I built this one as my 1K yd rifle but never got to stretch it's legs. Sako M995 TRG-S action, Bartlein gain twist barrel, Manners stock...

 

[Random Guy]

As for the 6.5 CM, I didn't mention it, as it lacks bullet weight for the tactical arena, IMHO.

Remember, we are discussing three cartridges here. The 6.5 is not one of them. If we were, the .223 would also be considered as it's being used accurately to 1K now.

Sorry, but the data shows otherwise regarding the 6.5 CM. The dedicated engineers at Crane who are responsible for testing, building and/or procuring sniper rifles and sniper grade ammunition for our most elite SOCOM soldiers (SEALs, Army Rangers, Special Forces, Delta Force, etc) have already conducted hundreds thousands of dollars of testing and recently decided to update the SR-25s with a new upper in 6.5 CM. It was a ballistics testing/evidence-driven decision, and also cost effective given re-use of the SR-25 lowers already in US SOCOM service.

Once you get past 600 meters, the residual/retained kinetic energy of the 140-147 grain 6.5mm will easily provide more knockdown powder than a 175 SMK from a 308W. When it comes to wind deflection the extremely aerodynamic and ultra high BC 6.5mm bullet it is very hard to beat - unless you are going with a magnum cartridge with a 3.0” length. If you want the most knock-down power at 1200-1300 meters with a cartridge that is only 2.8” long, the 147 grain 6.5mm bullet is what you want - according to the engineers and the empirical data I posted in 2021:

Here’s the data re US sniper round testing of various 6.5mm bullets vs the 308W w/ 175 SMK:

You want more knock down power beyond 1200 meters? Well, full-power 300 WinMag with 220 grain SMK is next in line with a 1500 meter range (aka Mk 248 Mod 1).

Want knock down power beyond 1500 meters? Well, there is always the 50BMG with a 750 grain bullet…

 

[M11293]

Sorry, but the data shows otherwise. The ballistic engineers at Crane who are responsible for building or procuring sniper rifles for our most elite soldiers (SOCOM) have already done millions of dollars of testing and recently decided to update the SR-25s with a new upper in 6.5 CM.

View attachment 533451

I thought they went with the new Gucci 6.8 mm, but that must just be for the automatics?

Shoot Like SOCOM: The 6.5 Creedmoor Cartridge & its Long Distance Relationship with CMMG's Endeavor Mk3

In 2018, US Special Operations Command adopted the 6.5 Creedmoor (CM) as their new Precision Rifle cartridge.

www.gunsamerica.com

For what it is worth, my boss used my 6.5 CM hunting rifle I put together this season. He dropped two doe at 250 and 300 yards. Dropped like a bag of potatoes. Didn't move 3 yards. The Hornady ELD-X 143 grain shoots superbly in that rifle, but the terminal ballistics were equally impressive. He is a 30-06 guy, but he loved the 6.5 CM.

 

[Jim Horton]

I'm enjoying this discussion. As far as sniping goes, Carlos Hathcock ended the 308 vs. 30-06 argument as far as I'm concerned. He chose the 06.

 

[DstRflMn645]

My personal opinion is that for a bolt gun the .284 Winchester is the way to go, I don't know what percentage of F-class shooters (probably 60% or more) are using it but there are many. I have a .284 1K prone rifle that shoots great. This was shot cold bore/no sighters/and my pulse adds about 1/2 min to the group. This was my old 1-9 barrel.

This group was shot with a new barrel (1-8.5), I'm currently testing the Hornady 180 ELDM, and so far they shoot excellently and have a .795 BC

And for those that think the .308 is a relic, the 169 Sierra's are the way to go. This is with my M40A1 clone at 600

And at 1K, Shot #6 was from a 2mph wind change.

John

 

[migunshooter]

For Ammo availability alone i went with .308 The ammo is always on a shelf. its more than capable at any distance i will shoot. This was one of the Remington 700p 5r 24" barreled actions that was once an option.

 

[Jackofalltrades03]

I love my 308 rifles. If I were in to snipping, it would be the 338 Lapua.

That was what I was thinking when the term "sniper" was invoked. 300 Win Mag and 338 Lapua. The 300 Win Mag Remington 700 5r that I shot was a drill press. If you did your job, it did it's job.

 

[Kopper]

What about a 270 Win Ackley Improved ? 6.5x284 Norma ? Does that fit a short action ? Do I see another rainbow to chase

This is a great discussion. The big boys are battling it out. I’ve been curious about the 6.5 PRC. Stag now makes bolt action rifles in .308, 6.5 CM, and one other caliber: 6.5 PRC.

Curious, I did a little digging. This is a good comparison article.

6.5-284 Norma vs 6.5 PRC: Cartridge Clash - RifleShooter

Both the 6.5-284 Norma and 6.5 PRC are exceptional rounds offering flat trajectories, great wind-bucking capabilities, heavy bullets that penetrate well and mild recoil, so you're a winner regardless of which round you ultimately choose.

www.rifleshootermag.com

 

[spsosicmcise]

When we talk sniping I would say 300wm is where I would start in bolt gun and 6.5 creedmoor for a semi auto with a shorter barrel.

 

[M11293]

When we talk sniping I would say 300wm is where I would start in bolt gun and 6.5 creedmoor for a semi auto with a shorter barrel.

Depends on distance, I’d say. Within 800 m? I’d take a bolt or semi auto in 6.5…

Beyond 800? Consistently? 300 WM… maybe a 338 Lapua. That said the ballistics of 6.5 CM eerily follow a 300 WM. BC matters. A lot.

 

[Duce]

7mm Rem Mag is a good round to 1000, 7mm is aval in 168gr SMK. its hard on barrels and has more recoil than .308 but very capable.

I was wondering when someone was going to mention the Mighty 7. One of my personal faves.

But then Hornady just came out with the 7 PRC. ’American Rifleman’ did a piece on it a month or so back. Got me interested.

Regarding the 280 REM vs. 280 AI… If you’re hand loading, I don’t think it’s really all that much of a difference between the two. For some reason, commercial 280 REM cartridges have always been underpowered.

Finally… with all this talk of the 6.5CM… what about the 260 REM? It’s all that and a bit more, if you want to squeeze it a little.

 

[sfoxwell]

Finally… with all this talk of the 6.5CM… what about the 260 REM? It’s all that and a bit more, if you want to squeeze it a little.

Definitely a good round...

 

[spsosicmcise]

Depends on distance, I’d say. Within 800 m? I’d take a bolt or semi auto in 6.5…

Beyond 800? Consistently? 300 WM… maybe a 338 Lapua. That said the ballistics of 6.5 CM eerily follow a 300 WM. BC matters. A lot.

When the word sniping comes into play external ballistics being mimicked are nice but I’m thinking terminal ballistics. It’s no longer a paper or steel game.

 

[cockednlocked]

I'm enjoying this discussion. As far as sniping goes, Carlos Hathcock ended the 308 vs. 30-06 argument as far as I'm concerned. He chose the 06.

He preferred the -06 Model 70 Winchester and used it the most, but his longest kill shot was with a M-2 .50 cal machine gun at just under 2500 yards. He said it would be good out to 3000 yards or more.

This is a good discussion, I have a M1A and a 6.5 Grendel on an AR15 chassis. I know the Grendel runs out of breath earlier than the .308 or Creedmoor, But I have hit 18" steel plates as far as 1125 yards with it and would call it a viable cartridge to consider as far as 1000 yards, although there are many more suitable ones for serious sniping. I've only had my M1A as far as 800 yards but figure it is good for a little more.

 

[M11293]

When the word sniping comes into play external ballistics being mimicked are nice but I’m thinking terminal ballistics. It’s no longer a paper or steel game.

I’m not sure I’ve seen terminal ballistic data from 6.5 bullets on gelatin, or real game, at 1000 yards or so. I don’t believe ballistic tip bullets would expand much at that distance…. Maybe I am wrong.

But one key advantage of 6.5 mm bullets is the sectional density, which can mitigate reduced velocity/energy considerations at distance when penetration matters most. Most bullets aren’t going to expand much at 1000+ yards anyway.

But I hear you. I’m not a .30 cal hater. 😂

 

[charlie98]

I love my 308 rifles. If I were in to snipping, it would be the 338 Lapua.

+1

But I have hit 18" steel plates as far as 1125 yards with it and would call it a viable cartridge to consider as far as 1000 yards, although there are many more suitable ones for serious sniping

I have friends that could hit a 18" plate at 1000yds+ with a .45-70 or .45-90 and black powder... and don't tell me 535grns of bullet wouldn't have some terminal effect at that distance. Maybe the new Socom rifle needs to be a 1885 single-shot...