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I emailed JRA about the warranty, all they said was:

At least a year, We stand behind anything that leaves this shop. Thanks, Mark
 
wow, thats like sorta pregnant!
Yeah, I wasn't satisfied with that answer, I guess that's their version of Archetype over there-trying to help but doesn't know dick. Boomer said he's picking his up today so we'll just see what the warranty card says.
 
Discussion starter · #126 ·
We talked a little about Pearl Harbor, history, and your father-in-laws service? How funny would that be. Two supposed strangers politely shooting the breeze when we could have just jumped into forum bs.
 
I emailed JRA about the warranty, all they said was:
In fairness, that's pretty much what Ruger's policy has been for decades, and they have very few complaints and tons of people praising them for going above and beyond what most would consider a manufacturing defect.

Heck, that's actually better than Ruger's warranty, which doesn't even give you a year, in writing. If you haven't found a manufacturer's defect within a year, it probably doesn't have one, and you can't expect no-questions-asked for a lifetime warranty of using a rifle.

If he says he'll "stand being behind it" for the period after the year, do we have any reason to suspect otherwise?
 
In fairness, that's pretty much what Ruger's policy has been for decades, and they have very few complaints and tons of people praising them for going above and beyond what most would consider a manufacturing defect.

Heck, that's actually better than Ruger's warranty, which doesn't even give you a year, in writing. If you haven't found a manufacturer's defect within a year, it probably doesn't have one, and you can't expect no-questions-asked for a lifetime warranty of using a rifle.

If he says he'll "stand being behind it" for the period after the year, do we have any reason to suspect otherwise?
Agreed, that sounds like the Warranty is a year, but if you have any issues talk to us and we'll see what we can do. But it would be good to have said it that way. My guess is since it's a new product, and it's a tricky product to develop, that if some defect comes to light after a year they will try to do right by their customers. I have no experience with them, but no reason to be skeptical either. I can understand though that everyone is a bit cautious after some of the things that have gone on with other receiver manufactures rolling out their first go at it.

If a couple of guys build some nice rifles off of them without tons of problems, then I think everyone will feel better. :)

Justin
 
In fairness, that's pretty much what Ruger's policy has been for decades, and they have very few complaints and tons of people praising them for going above and beyond what most would consider a manufacturing defect.

Heck, that's actually better than Ruger's warranty, which doesn't even give you a year, in writing. If you haven't found a manufacturer's defect within a year, it probably doesn't have one, and you can't expect no-questions-asked for a lifetime warranty of using a rifle.

If he says he'll "stand being behind it" for the period after the year, do we have any reason to suspect otherwise?
My concern is some caveat like using reloads, or steel cases, or something like that. A big operation like Ruger can afford to just replace stuff regardless of the circumstances but a small time operation often can't. Even SAI with their good customer service does have some conditions on their warranty.
 
Cursory Review of James River Receiver

I don't know the legal structure of the new Rock-Ola Firearms company or the players involved. I was simply asked to give an opinion by Mark Hartman, owner of James River. I have no financial interest in the outcome and do not play favorites or sugar coat reviews.

Following is a cursory view. The next step is to have the guys in the shop assemble a complete rifle with the receiver and report their findings to me. I've done many of the steps required to begin a build process, but I want the guys in the shop to do the final build because it's a chance for continuing education and it gives me a second and third opinion.

The Rock-Ola receiver, serial number 49, when initially inspected has many machining characteristics that are similar to the 7.62mm receivers we've used and inspected here in the shop. For example, the bolt relief cut in the heel of the receiver is executed in a similar fashion, and the left bolt lug recess relief cut was done with three operations using an end mill just like the 7.62mm receivers.

There are dimensional differences. On the Rock-Ola, the external op rod rail is narrower, the edges are not broken on sharp corners and the overall machining finish is not as well executed. On a scale of 1 to 10, the machining is a 6. Time is money, and doing a lot of the fine tuning is often considered unnecessary and unprofitable. This is external and the appearance is always determined by the eye of the beholder.

Other obvious characteristics include the serrations for the rear sight, which do not follow the print. This however is a popular style among all other makers with the exception of LRB. I'm going to have my machinist look at the mag well, but I see tooling marks from a broach type cutter as opposed to the more modern EDM process. There is nothing particularly wrong with that process, but EDM is better in terms of the finish. (Edit to add) The EDM leaves a scale, but once the scale is removed, the final finish is more uniform.

Following are few things that I observed in my cursory inspection:

1. Barrel timing and threads

The receiver has advanced thread timing. This means the barrel hand times in an advanced position. Of course this is dependent on how one views it. It could be considered a retarded position. Regardless of terminology, I compared the timing on this receiver to a USGI receiver and several others and the bottom line is that the barrel will need to be turned back significantly in order to stay within the torque limits of the receiver and obtain proper timing. My estimate is 10 degrees advanced. The threads also do not terminate at the proper place verified by comparison and by examining the print. I was not able to identify a major issue with this lack of thread termination. The threads continue all the way into the front of the mag well instead of terminating .100" or so short.

2. Firing Pin Bridge

The firing pin bridge is substantial, but lacks a proper ramp for the firing pin tail. While a slight bevel is present, it's not within specification. It does not meet the requirements outlined in the print. Furthermore, the relief cut for the firing pin tail is tight and the firing pin will not fully seat when the bolt is in full battery. Of course after the hammer hits it a few times, it will seat, but this may alter the dimensions of the firing pin tail. I recommend a modification be made to bring this area into specification.

3. The bolt relief cut at heel

This is a complex machining operation that requires fixtures to hold the receiver in perfect alignment. On USGI receivers, it is purported this operation was done through the face of the receiver with a cutting tool long enough to make a cylindrical relief cut on the inside of the heel to allow the bolt to contact squarely so that the force is evenly distributed during recoil. It appears the relief cut on this receiver is done very similarly to the 7.62mm receiver in that it was cut on an angle coming into the workpiece from the opening in the bolt race behind the receiver legs. The machining marks in this area are nearly identical to the 7.62mm receivers. Even the type of rough cutting tool was used.

4. Bolt stop boss spring pin holes

The through holes for the spring pin that holds the bolt stop are slightly undersized. Using a pin gauge set, I determined them to be .0946". This makes for extra work and opening this up to .0950" would make a tremendous difference. This dimension must account for the addition of the final finish.



Things that are well executed:

1. Given the complex nature of forging, machining and heat treatment, this receiver has a good to very good overall appearance. The finish is a deep black and appears to be very similar to a black nitriding finish.

2. The left bolt lug recess has the appropriate ramp for bolt rotation and the left lug recess has a good radius. The trigger groups I tried all lined up and there were no issues with clearance when locking the trigger guard.

3. All bolts I tried in the receiver worked without binding. (contact will be determined when the build is done) The bolt stop window was adequately machined and the rear sight pocket was spot on. Alignment and overall diameter on the rear sight ears was excellent.

4. The op rod track dimensions are very good as well as the dismount relief cut, or notch.

5. Scope mount compatibility was good.


Overall assessment and suggestions for improvement:


My overall impression is good. It's obvious a lot of time went in to not making many of the same mistakes others have made in the past. The machining and geometry are average and very good respectively. Aside from the items above, and from a cursory view I believe the receiver has potential. I didn't look at it and say "daxx that's the best receiver I've ever seen" but it is a good first run receiver. If those who are making the receiver will spend some extra time cleaning up the machining, breaking the sharp edges and fixing the areas notated above. The receiver will be a solid option for those wanting a forged receiver.

I'll follow-up with an additional review after the receiver has been built and test fired. As I continue my evaluation, I'll update this post.
 
JRA got wind that I wasn't satisfied with the warranty information they gave me, here is the response they provided:

I have been informed that I did not adequately answer your question. Receivers have a one year warranty, I am not much on CYA or lawyer speak. I have no control over who builds or how these receivers are built, Had quite a bit of experience with this several years ago when we tried to take over Armscorp. We even helped the guy who thought a bench vise and big pipe wrench were correct barreling tools. I take incredible pride in what we produce here. James River has been mainly a restoration shop with limited full scale manufacture for years. We have consistently warranted 70 plus year old rifles taking care of any issues we have faced. A small percentage of rifles will have issues. Some from us, some from the customers use. We just take care of it. As for reloads, Gas guns, both the 14 and Garand are hard on brass, my competition shooting career started in the Marine Corps over 30 years ago when the M14 was king. I have seen three 14's blow up, one a USGI the other two were M1A's. Every single incident was a result of reloading brass that should have been sent to a scrap yard. As a match shooter I have reloaded countless rounds without an issue, Brass is never used more than twice and never will I use range pickups. The problem is that while we may know the correct procedures and loads while taking the time to insure safety, there is no control over who or how the ammunition is loaded. This is why reloads will void any companies warranty. I can understand your skepticism with a new product. Knowing this industry and some of the players in it I would be too. From receiver sn 1, this project has yielded fully functional safe reliable rifles, I have been the first person to test fire these rifles during development! These receivers build the way they were intended. Todays production from one gunsmith was 9 rifles. Every lot of receivers that has come off of the machine has had minor tweaking trying to get things perfect so that you will have an easier time with them. My main interest is selling a high quality Mil-spec reliable rifle to the mainstream firearms community. I believe there is a real need out there for this. I take all feedback seriously and if something needs to be corrected it will be immediately. Please feel free to call me if I can in any way be of assistance. Thank You, Mark Hartman
 
JRA got wind that I wasn't satisfied with the warranty information they gave me, here is the response they provided:
That is a guy that appears to be looking at the industry and customer base with wide open eyes... There is some serious low hanging fruit available to any manufacturer that can produce something affordable (relative) and quality in the M14 world.

Will they start making bolts/op-rods/etc?

Wish them every success...
 
As far as I'm concerned, they get an A+ for customer service so far. Once these receivers are all over the market and range reports start popping up, I think these guys will be very successful.
 
not to bash anyone concerning warranties, but when comparing a relative newcomers 1 year warranty to ruger's unstated warranty, there is no comparison. ruger has a proven track record of backing up its product- for the life of the product, not just the first owner, nor just the first 365 days. i agree with JRA saying they have no control over how the recievers are built, or how they are treated in use, but thats why most decent warranties are specific about the warranty covering manufacturing defects.
 
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