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questions about AP black tip in 7.62 and 30-06

19K views 29 replies 14 participants last post by  Jackofalltrades03  
The story is that snipers used M2 AP during WW2, as it was supposedly more accurate than M2 Ball ammo. I suspect that it was also much more prevalent than Ball ammo, as huge amounts of it were manufactured in an effort to conserve lead.
 
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I don’t have Bruce Canfield’s book, The M1 Garand, in front of me to quote the specifics, but I do recall that during WWII Aberdeen Proving Ground determined that AP ammo was slightly more accurate than M2 ball ammo, and that AP ammo created a lot more barrel wear. The original study suggested 30 percent more wear with AP, but the later study wasn’t as conclusive re excess wear level, but noted it did create additional barrel wear.

My suspicion is that the longer, heavier AP bullet with its higher sectional density probably has a higher ballistic coefficient (BC), possibly in the mid 0.4XX area - compared to the lighter and shorter M2 bullet which presumably has a lower BC in the mid 0.3XX area. If that hypothesis is true, then AP ammo would be marginally more accurate under windy conditions and exhibit less drop at long distances - all other factors being equal such as velocity.. Again, that is just my personal speculation and I have not seen empirical data to support my theory.

This theory would also apply to 7.62 NATO AP ammo as well given the T29’s bullet profile compared to the M59 or M80’s stubbier bullet profiles, respectively.
Somewhere I have an article by Ray Sharpe bemoaning how unknowing fools "shot out" National Match 1903 Springfield barrels by shooting a relatively few rounds of AP ammo through them. Despite the supposed in creased wear caused by the ammo, I suspect that it would take more than 50-100 rounds to induce significant wear.

ETA: Okay, I found it. According to Ray, 200 rounds of RA 41 AP ammo destroyed the NM barrel on an M1903 rifle - one that was planned to be replaced anyway. It went from shooting 1+ inch 5-shot groups to 3+ inch groups after firing 200 rounds of AP ammo. Color me skeptical.
 
Ray Sharpe: "AP destroyed the NM barrel on an M1903 rifle"
IMO/actual experience this is simple 'horse trail muffins' based on the below:
We had 24-38 competitors in the 70's springs/summers/falls in MI shooting 44 rounds/NRA Comp 2X's/Mo (10-12 matches/year), 200-300-600 (1X/yr) yards, 24 slow fire & 20 rapid fire.
Majority used WWII Military used as well as National Match Garand's & 1903 Springfield's, except the better shooters (who also competed at Camp Perry, OH) who used bolt action rifles paired with Military light machine gun heavier barrels.
Like my Dad, most reloaded their own ammo, using cheap/plentiful Military WWII AP ammo, they pulled the AP bullets from the corrosive primed Military ammo, as well as the powder, poured/reseated both into Lake City (good stuff) polished, resized & factory primed cases (from previous Military WWII ammo).
Absolutely zero/0 unusual/premature wear issues, in fact they preferred the heavier/longer AP bullet over the standard 150gn Military ball as THAT was known to wear out chamber throats/barrels quicker, and was less accurate.

Note, my Dad initially started weighing the AP bullets and the powder, and found both were so consistent across Manufacturer/Arsenal lots it wasn't worth the extra time/step.

I shot my MK I 1903 Springfield (similar to below pic) w/ an unfired '44 SA 4-groove barrel (swapped from original 2-groove), added Redfield International micrometer sights, & Timney trigger (rest kept as OEM Military configuration), 200-300-600 yard Comp's for 8 summers (I was age 14-21).
Based on the above, I have put 3520-4224 Military WWII AP rounds through it.
It's still a tack driver at 200-300 yards.
Also at 600 yard Comp's; however, Dad would load heavier/longer 180gr Match bullets for those.

In fact, I/it/AP/luck would shoot the previous shot's target spotter center pin out 2-3 times a summer at 300 yards prone slow fire during my last couple years when I was shooting higher scores.
I typically shot in the mid-90's out of 100 w/ 3-5X's

My Dad's National Match Garand has many more years/Military WWII AP rounds through it.

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I don't doubt you one bit. Ray Sharpe was known as something of a blowhard, who was always the smartest guy in the room. Don't believe me? Just ask him. Well, he won't be able to respond since he's taking a dirt nap. To me, the very notion that a mere 200 rounds of normal ammo, millions (billions?) of rounds of which were produced and consumed, would destroy the accuracy of any barrel is laughable. Now, fire 200 rounds of corrosive-primed AP ammo and don't clean properly afterwards? Yeah, that would have done it.
 
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