I don't disagree with anything you said. That said, if I were going to build a precision rifle, I would likely go with 6.5 Creedmoor. .308 case length, 6.5 ballistics. That's a winning combo for me.

 

What do they call the barrel contour on that M40A1, "triple-ought"?

 

They call it the m40/m24 contour, the manliest contour this side of the GWOT.

 

The .308 Win is a mule. She is not as sexy 6.5 Creedmoor. But the .308 Win is plenty pretty to my eyes. She is plenty - not much more to say about her.

If people are wanting other type of round to please their cravings, by all means. But the M14 is my rifle and I shall love no other. 😄

 

Simply put, short fat cartridges like the .284 burn powder more efficiently than long slender ones. However, they can cause feeding issues.

When Brenneke invented the 7x64 cartridge, the German army considered using it for their sniper rifles. Wartime logistics prevailed and they stayed with the 8x57.

 

.280 Ackley Improved probably gets my vote for a long action rifle. Short action, 6.5CM is hard to beat. 308 is always a fail safe option. Nothing wrong with it, especially with the new 169gr SMK.

 

From my experience shooting NRA Long Range matches with the 308-bolt rifle at ranges varying from 600 to 1000 yards found it did its job well as long as I used the 190gr SMK bullets and IMR 4064 powder, Lapua brass, Fed 210 primers and bullet seated very close to the lands and grooves (some 2-4 thousand jump.) Mind you that the barrel was 30 inches long, Palma Rifle, with micrometer rear sight and globe front sight. Was told by experienced long-range shooters that the bullet would be sub sonic at the target face and not give reliable performance, but that was not the case for me and my rifle. The 190's helped a great deal in the wind versus the 155 or 175 SMK bullets and that is a big plus at long range.
I no longer compete in the matches due to age and health issues but find the 308 to be a fine cartridge for match shooting.

 

Just for the record, I didn’t have much trouble finding brass for 7mm-08 recently and .284” bullets are plentiful. I pretty much agree with everything else said.

 

Gents,

For those of us shooting "service rifle" the answer is, of course, the .308. More out of necessity than anything else, methinks. I firmly believe that the .308 is superior to most other cartridges. Where it falls a bit short it is not due to the cartridge, but rather the caliber. Frankly, the BC's of the .30's suck unless you go heavy weight 190's and up. I should note that .30 cal. bullet weights have climbed to almost 145 gr. (SMK), but the .308 does not have the capacity to push the heavies. The best option for the .308 is probably the newish 169 gr. SMK. IT CAN be pushed fast enough to be viable in the .308 AND have a competitive trajectory. Those shooting it should chime in and add your experiences.
I've found that it gives 3-4 MOA less drop at 600 yds than the 168 or 175 gr. in the .308. That IS significant.
Of course, it has the added advantage of availability, both of bullets and brass. In short, the .308 is the cartridge the others must beat.

Those stumping for the 7mm/08 are going to have trouble finding bullets and brass in today's market. It's a wonderful cartridge, but is not legal for service rifle and your stuck shooting high power bolt guns for match purposes. If you shoot "F" class there are better cartridges out there. It just doesn't have the legs to make the journey, IMHO. (Phil is throwing up right now).

The newer "darling" of the "F" class shooters is the .284 Winchester. Not only does it have the capacity to shoot the 175 to 183 gr. and higher weight SMK's well, but it is an EXTREMELY accurate cartridge. It also bucks the wind wonderfully.
If it weren't for current shortages of reloading components it is my pick of the litter.

In closing I think that the .284 is the best cartridge for tactical/match shooting, but feel that most of us are well served with the .308 Winchester provided the 169 Gr. SMK is used. Other than that I'll go with the .284 Winchester as the real winner here.

Here's my GA Precision M40A1 series rifle in .284 Winchester:

View attachment 533426

I'll be working with the .284 this winter and will report my results back. Load will be:
183 gr SMK, Hogdon H4831SC, Lapua brass, and a Federal 210M primer.

Your thoughts and experiences are solicited...

Wes

Beautiful Bolt Gun !!

Looking forward to your results.

 

I've actually got a box of the 169grn SMK's I'm testing now... next to the 168's, I'll be curious to see how they shake out.

My rifle is a 24" Savage 10TAC, the cheapo Cabelas rifle offered a few years ago. The longest I've had it out to was 700yds... the 168grn SMK's fell apart with IMR4895, but... I'm guessing... remained supersonic with IMR4064, and I was fairly bashing the plate at that point. As I creep up on 1000yds, I'm hoping the newer SMK will get me there, but I'm prepared to move to the 175grn.

As far as the 1000yd Easy Button... I would have to throw my hat into the 6.5CM ring. It's an easy shooting rifle that's easy to shoot well. If I'm reading the ballistics right, reaching 1000yds with the 6.5CM is fairly easy. I've built 1, on an AR-10 receiver set... but it was for a friend, not for me.

 

Discussion can turn 180 degrees simply by bolt or M1A firing these calibers. We building or owning ?
This a 600 yd shooting discussion or 100 to 1000 yds. Framing the discussion helps or in better terms what is the mission / shooters requirement. I got nothing to argue with the facts Weshow states nor that of others. What is said is more valid than questionable.

I've been into this caliber thing for the last 15 years , initially 100 to 600 and then moving to 1000 yds and seen a lot of serious shooters here at Quantico try different solutions. Here is my take and thoughts.

a. 7mm calibers dead , components sparse and for some obtuse reason the superb 7mm/08 didn't change the American indifference to 7mm calibers. Lost opportunity as 7mm has great potential.

b. 30 caliber got neutered as soon as 308 became the sex kitten that "did everything a 3006 can do". Well it can't if you move off 600 yd line and gain more distance. A lot of the decision to go with 762 was weight of ammo and battle field needs for battle rifles more than met with 762 Nato. Oh you say M700 sniper rifle systems shoot 762 out to 1000 yds and yes they do but...and here is where the inconvenient truth is ....out of a bolt M700, the 3006 outshoots the 308 Win for accuracy. Yes it does, I've moved to 3006 for 1000 yds because 308 is on life support at this distance from a M700. 3006 beats it at 1000 yd for accuracy but 308 is combat effective at 1000 yds...just not as consistent for precision shooting which of course defines sniper rifles . I own the 308 and 3006 M700's, I bought the T shirt and 3006 is more accurate at 1000 yds: both are just Peachy at a mere 600 yds.

c. Long vs short action bolt rifles. The craze for short action is smoke. It takes me no more to run that long bolt Model 700 in 3006 than same rifle in 308. The difference in action "desirability" really is not speed, its the dementia of 3 ounces of weight saved by using a short action bolt rifle which does open up a huge menu of chassis selections for you but LIMITS you on calibers. Semi auto rifles ...we were shooting M1's in 3006 for a long time at 1000 yds till the notion 308 does everything and the M1 vanished from competition and M14 took its place. Yes I shoot M1A at 1000 yds and can do 15 to 18" groups which will print not too shabby scores on big NRA/CMP bullseyes for that distance. In fact, my M1A scoped will hold all rounds in a man size chest at 1000yds..if the standard of accuracy is dropping men flat on the deck, its more than adequate for sniper use at 1000 yds.

d. 6.5 is indeed a wonderful long range bullet and if Hornady had flogged it as 6.5/308 the caliber would have flopped but BS sells ...they called it 6.5 Creedmoor and rest is history. Is it better than 308 Win for 1000 yds...Hell yes it is and out of my Accuracy International rifle with Bartlein barrels in 6.5 Creedmoor and 308 Win.....6.5 Creedmoor is more accurate. The AI is a sniper rifle so for purposes of best caliber, its the best sniper caliber in 6.5 Creed vs 308 Win. Now if that rifle were made in 6.5x55 Swede, the 6.5 Creedmoor would suck swamp water but they only make short action so the driver is action length not best caliber for a sniper rifle. Hey ...338 Lapua is bloody amazing sniper platform and no one snivels about its long action nor bolt throw or weight !

e. 308 Win is good Enuff for sniper use out of a bolt or semi auto rifle to 600 yds and 6.5 Creedmoor is better . At 1000 yds, the 6.5 Creedmoor is hands down far better. If I rebarreled my M1A to 6.5 Creedmoor, case of beer its 15 to 18" groups at 1000 yds would shrink. As said out of my AI sniper platform 6.5 Creedmoor is more accurate than 308 Win. Just is. And out of my other long range precision rifles in 308 Win and 3006, the 3006 beats 308 at 1000 yds hands down on better accuracy. Yes, if AI had offered a long action, I'd be shooting 3006 and 6.5 caliber Bartlein barrels but AI doesn't do long actions...if that changed DO NOT TELL ME. I'm not over the PTSD price I paid for my AI short action !! LOL

Where are we then. well, I've run this rabbit down the hole at 100 to 1000 yds and my conclusions above are of 15 yrs shooting about every weekend Rg 4 Quantico . 6.5 is more accurate bullet than 308 due to BC, both calibers driven on the market by short actions while long action calibers using same bullets will do better ..but those are not sold , the Kool Factor BS is you got to have a short action. That sells...BS sells , new sells ...6.5/08 won't but 6.5 Creedmoor does.

The reason 6.5 is better is really because it is BUT its been overlooked and been unsuccessful at times some rifle maker tried to flag it. My 264 Win Mag an example of failure. The ignorance of our shooters on 6.5 is legendary but all it took was relabel it with an American logo like Creedmoor and all of a sudden the lights go on in the American attics and its now the hottest chick to chase. Its not new , we had 6.5/08 long ago but we drank the 308 does everything Kool Aid and rest is history.

6.5/3006 Ackley Improved : I'd do it but chasing rainbows no longer on my radar. Best sniper caliber...308 Win adequate but not "best" for all missions.

I was smarter in 2008 than today, I knew then that 3006 or a 6.5/06 or 6.5 Swede would really be the ticket for 100 to 1000 yd accuracy but the Short Action and 308 Win Kool Aid deflected me , wasted my time and money and in 2023, I know 3006 and 6.5 caliber is the ticket for long range precision shooting. I own a 6.5 Creedmoor short action only because AI doesn't sell a long action 6.5 Swede caliber rifle or a 3006 caliber rifle.

But 308 / 762 ain't Best. Recommend not drinking that Kool Aid. I'll be home all day so you 308 Win villagers get your torches & pitch forks and come get me. Don't forget the rope and yes there is a tree in front yard still.

My grammar and spelling errors are patented. Don't plagiarize my success with English.

 

Discussion can turn 180 degrees simply by bolt or M1A firing these calibers. We building or owning ?
This a 600 yd shooting discussion or 100 to 1000 yds. Framing the discussion helps or in better terms what is the mission / shooters requirement. I got nothing to argue with the facts Weshow states nor that of others. What is said is more valid than questionable.

I've been into this caliber thing for the last 15 years , initially 100 to 600 and then moving to 1000 yds and seen a lot of serious shooters here at Quantico try different solutions. Here is my take and thoughts.

a. 7mm calibers dead , components sparse and for some obtuse reason the superb 7mm/08 didn't change the American indifference to 7mm calibers. Lost opportunity as 7mm has great potential.

b. 30 caliber got neutered as soon as 308 became the sex kitten that "did everything a 3006 can do". Well it can't if you move off 600 yd line and gain more distance. A lot of the decision to go with 762 was weight of ammo and battle field needs for battle rifles more than met with 762 Nato. Oh you say M700 sniper rifle systems shoot 762 out to 1000 yds and yes they do but...and here is where the inconvenient truth is ....out of a bolt M700, the 3006 outshoots the 308 Win for accuracy. Yes it does, I've moved to 3006 for 1000 yds because 308 is on life support at this distance from a M700. 3006 beats it at 1000 yd for accuracy but 308 is combat effective at 1000 yds...just not as consistent for precision shooting which of course defines sniper rifles . I own the 308 and 3006 M700's, I bought the T shirt and 3006 is more accurate at 1000 yds: both are just Peachy at a mere 600 yds.

c. Long vs short action bolt rifles. The craze for short action is smoke. It takes me no more to run that long bolt Model 700 in 3006 than same rifle in 308. The difference in action "desirability" really is not speed, its the dementia of 3 ounces of weight saved by using a short action bolt rifle which does open up a huge menu of chassis selections for you but LIMITS you on calibers. Semi auto rifles ...we were shooting M1's in 3006 for a long time at 1000 yds till the notion 308 does everything and the M1 vanished from competition and M14 took its place. Yes I shoot M1A at 1000 yds and can do 15 to 18" groups which will print not too shabby scores on big NRA/CMP bullseyes for that distance. In fact, my M1A scoped will hold all rounds in a man size chest at 1000yds..if the standard of accuracy is dropping men flat on the deck, its more than adequate for sniper use at 1000 yds.

d. 6.5 is indeed a wonderful long range bullet and if Hornady had flogged it as 6.5/308 the caliber would have flopped but BS sells ...they called it 6.5 Creedmoor and rest is history. Is it better than 308 Win for 1000 yds...Hell yes it is and out of my Accuracy International rifle with Bartlein barrels in 6.5 Creedmoor and 308 Win.....6.5 Creedmoor is more accurate. The AI is a sniper rifle so for purposes of best caliber, its the best sniper caliber in 6.5 Creed vs 308 Win. Now if that rifle were made in 6.5x55 Swede, the 6.5 Creedmoor would suck swamp water but they only make short action so the driver is action length not best caliber for a sniper rifle. Hey ...338 Lapua is bloody amazing sniper platform and no one snivels about its long action nor bolt throw or weight !

e. 308 Win is good Enuff for sniper use out of a bolt or semi auto rifle to 600 yds and 6.5 Creedmoor is better . At 1000 yds, the 6.5 Creedmoor is hands down far better. If I rebarreled my M1A to 6.5 Creedmoor, case of beer its 15 to 18" groups at 1000 yds would shrink. As said out of my AI sniper platform 6.5 Creedmoor is more accurate than 308 Win. Just is. And out of my other long range precision rifles in 308 Win and 3006, the 3006 beats 308 at 1000 yds hands down on better accuracy. Yes, if AI had offered a long action, I'd be shooting 3006 and 6.5 caliber Bartlein barrels but AI doesn't do long actions...if that changed DO NOT TELL ME. I'm not over the PTSD price I paid for my AI short action !! LOL

Where are we then. well, I've run this rabbit down the hole at 100 to 1000 yds and my conclusions above are of 15 yrs shooting about every weekend Rg 4 Quantico . 6.5 is more accurate bullet than 308 due to BC, both calibers driven on the market by short actions while long action calibers using same bullets will do better ..but those are not sold , the Kool Factor BS is you got to have a short action. That sells...BS sells , new sells ...6.5/08 won't but 6.5 Creedmoor does.

The reason 6.5 is better is really because it is BUT its been overlooked and been unsuccessful at times some rifle maker tried to flag it. My 264 Win Mag an example of failure. The ignorance of our shooters on 6.5 is legendary but all it took was relabel it with an American logo like Creedmoor and all of a sudden the lights go on in the American attics and its now the hottest chick to chase. Its not new , we had 6.5/08 long ago but we drank the 308 does everything Kool Aid and rest is history.

6.5/3006 Ackley Improved : I'd do it but chasing rainbows no longer on my radar. Best sniper caliber...308 Win adequate but not "best" for all missions.

I was smarter in 2008 than today, I knew then that 3006 or a 6.5/06 or 6.5 Swede would really be the ticket for 100 to 1000 yd accuracy but the Short Action and 308 Win Kool Aid deflected me , wasted my time and money and in 2023, I know 3006 and 6.5 caliber is the ticket for long range precision shooting. I own a 6.5 Creedmoor short action only because AI doesn't sell a long action 6.5 Swede caliber rifle or a 3006 caliber rifle.

But 308 / 762 ain't Best. Recommend not drinking that Kool Aid. I'll be home all day so you 308 Win villagers get your torches & pitch forks and come get me. Don't forget the rope and yes there is a tree in front yard still.

My grammar and spelling errors are patented. Don't plagiarize my success with English.

How about .30-06 AI? You can still do that for pennies. It might be worth a try for an even better 1,000. Stay safe. j

 

Gents,

Instructor, your experience with the .308 is not typical and worked because of the long barrel and I'm guessing hot loads. Also, we don't shoot 190's (normally) in the M1A/M-14 as it's rough on the rifle. Some of you may have a different experience from mine, but I won't put a 190 SMK in my gas guns. The 190 SMK worked for you due to a number of reasons. You got away with it due to shooting a bolt gun (another reason I like bolt actions). I really think that the 169 Gr. SMK will breath some life back into the .308.
For me the 190 SMK just won't cut it. Maybe in a .300 Win Mag, but we are not talking about that here.
As for the 6.5 CM, I didn't mention it, as it lacks bullet weight for the tactical arena, IMHO.
Remember, we are discussing three cartridges here. The 6.5 is not one of them. If we were, the .223 would also be considered as it's being used accurately to 1K now.
As for availability of components...I finally scored 200 rounds of match .284 brass this morning after months of looking for it. Can't vouch for availability of 7mm/08 brass. 7mm match bullets have been unavailable.
If you find components stock up now...it's going to get tough...

Just my opinion...

Wes

 

Gents,

Please note that I posted these calibers as potential or actual sniper rounds.

Wes

 

How about a 6.5-284 Norma? Best of both 284 and 6.5 worlds. Not a barrel burner with the heavier 140+ bullets as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6.5-284_Norma

308 on the Left. 6.5-284 Norma on the right.

 

Gents,

Almost forgot about the 6.5 x 284 Norma. It's a wonderful cartridge. Here's mine...built on a G.A. Precision "Hospitaller".

 

You would have one. 😂👍

 

What about a 270 Win Ackley Improved ? 6.5x284 Norma ? Does that fit a short action ? Do I see another rainbow to chase

 

This is a great discussion. The big boys are battling it out. I’ve been curious about the 6.5 PRC. Stag now makes bolt action rifles in .308, 6.5 CM, and one other caliber: 6.5 PRC.

Curious, I did a little digging. This is a good comparison article.

6.5-284 Norma vs 6.5 PRC: Cartridge Clash - RifleShooter

Both the 6.5-284 Norma and 6.5 PRC are exceptional rounds offering flat trajectories, great wind-bucking capabilities, heavy bullets that penetrate well and mild recoil, so you're a winner regardless of which round you ultimately choose.

www.rifleshootermag.com

 

My experience with the .284 Win is limited to the range and hunting. My dad had a Model 70 rebarrled to the .284 way back in the mid 60's, took a couple of elk and deer with it. I shot my first two deer with that rifle in Alaska in '68, dropped both like they were struck by lightning. Was shooting a 140 gr Sierra at something over 3000fps IIRC.

Later when my dad was getting old and not shooting or hunting anymore, he wanted me to have the rifle, but I preferred he give it to my son and we still have it. Its accuracy had fallen off after many years of shooting it, but I went to work to find a new load for it. I found that the 140 gr Barnes TSX shot really well at just over 3000fps and its been to Africa twice using that load and its very effective on game even as tough as wildebeest which often ignore the first shot as if you had missed. My son put one into the chest of one from the front and cleaved the heart and kept going. Critter ran a few yards and was done.

My own 7mm's have been many 7x57's, a couple of .280 Rems, and a few 7x64's, the metric twin of the .280 Rem, and two 7-08's, neither of which did much for me.
All great rounds.

 

As already noted - .308/7.62x51 is a workhorse, and we are still improving its performance with the new 169 SMK. It has proven very capable as a true sniper rifle in the right hands, many times in many situations.

I love my 30 cals - including 7.62x54R and .30-06. Next step for me would be 300WM.

I'm no sniper or HM, but my very basic .308 bolt rifle has produced solid groups out to 1000 yards (on a good day). I'm satisfied with that. It's not the weak link in the chain at this point.

 

That is basically my take on the 308. It isn't my favorite cartridge. But it sure works. And it is available.

 

7mm Rem Mag is a good round to 1000, 7mm is aval in 168gr SMK. its hard on barrels and has more recoil than .308 but very capable.

 

I built this one as my 1K yd rifle but never got to stretch it's legs. Sako M995 TRG-S action, Bartlein gain twist barrel, Manners stock...

 

I love my 308 rifles. If I were in to snipping, it would be the 338 Lapua.

 

That was what I was thinking when the term "sniper" was invoked. 300 Win Mag and 338 Lapua. The 300 Win Mag Remington 700 5r that I shot was a drill press. If you did your job, it did it's job.

 

I REALLY like the 7-08.
I converted this commercial Mauser 30-06 to a 7-08. It was a fun project. Needs a better stock...

 

As for the 6.5 CM, I didn't mention it, as it lacks bullet weight for the tactical arena, IMHO.

Remember, we are discussing three cartridges here. The 6.5 is not one of them. If we were, the .223 would also be considered as it's being used accurately to 1K now.

Sorry, but the data shows otherwise regarding the 6.5 CM. The dedicated engineers at Crane who are responsible for testing, building and/or procuring sniper rifles and sniper grade ammunition for our most elite SOCOM soldiers (SEALs, Army Rangers, Special Forces, Delta Force, etc) have already conducted hundreds thousands of dollars of testing and recently decided to update the SR-25s with a new upper in 6.5 CM. It was a ballistics testing/evidence-driven decision, and also cost effective given re-use of the SR-25 lowers already in US SOCOM service.

Once you get past 600 meters, the residual/retained kinetic energy of the 140-147 grain 6.5mm will easily provide more knockdown powder than a 175 SMK from a 308W. When it comes to wind deflection the extremely aerodynamic and ultra high BC 6.5mm bullet it is very hard to beat - unless you are going with a magnum cartridge with a 3.0” length. If you want the most knock-down power at 1200-1300 meters with a cartridge that is only 2.8” long, the 147 grain 6.5mm bullet is what you want - according to the engineers and the empirical data I posted in 2021:

Here’s the data re US sniper round testing of various 6.5mm bullets vs the 308W w/ 175 SMK:

You want more knock down power beyond 1200 meters? Well, full-power 300 WinMag with 220 grain SMK is next in line with a 1500 meter range (aka Mk 248 Mod 1).

Want knock down power beyond 1500 meters? Well, there is always the 50BMG with a 750 grain bullet…

 

Sorry, but the data shows otherwise. The ballistic engineers at Crane who are responsible for building or procuring sniper rifles for our most elite soldiers (SOCOM) have already done millions of dollars of testing and recently decided to update the SR-25s with a new upper in 6.5 CM.

View attachment 533451

I thought they went with the new Gucci 6.8 mm, but that must just be for the automatics?

Shoot Like SOCOM: The 6.5 Creedmoor Cartridge & its Long Distance Relationship with CMMG's Endeavor Mk3

In 2018, US Special Operations Command adopted the 6.5 Creedmoor (CM) as their new Precision Rifle cartridge.

www.gunsamerica.com

For what it is worth, my boss used my 6.5 CM hunting rifle I put together this season. He dropped two doe at 250 and 300 yards. Dropped like a bag of potatoes. Didn't move 3 yards. The Hornady ELD-X 143 grain shoots superbly in that rifle, but the terminal ballistics were equally impressive. He is a 30-06 guy, but he loved the 6.5 CM.

 

I'm enjoying this discussion. As far as sniping goes, Carlos Hathcock ended the 308 vs. 30-06 argument as far as I'm concerned. He chose the 06.

 

I'm enjoying this discussion. As far as sniping goes, Carlos Hathcock ended the 308 vs. 30-06 argument as far as I'm concerned. He chose the 06.

He preferred the -06 Model 70 Winchester and used it the most, but his longest kill shot was with a M-2 .50 cal machine gun at just under 2500 yards. He said it would be good out to 3000 yards or more.

This is a good discussion, I have a M1A and a 6.5 Grendel on an AR15 chassis. I know the Grendel runs out of breath earlier than the .308 or Creedmoor, But I have hit 18" steel plates as far as 1125 yards with it and would call it a viable cartridge to consider as far as 1000 yards, although there are many more suitable ones for serious sniping. I've only had my M1A as far as 800 yards but figure it is good for a little more.

 

My personal opinion is that for a bolt gun the .284 Winchester is the way to go, I don't know what percentage of F-class shooters (probably 60% or more) are using it but there are many. I have a .284 1K prone rifle that shoots great. This was shot cold bore/no sighters/and my pulse adds about 1/2 min to the group. This was my old 1-9 barrel.

This group was shot with a new barrel (1-8.5), I'm currently testing the Hornady 180 ELDM, and so far they shoot excellently and have a .795 BC

And for those that think the .308 is a relic, the 169 Sierra's are the way to go. This is with my M40A1 clone at 600

And at 1K, Shot #6 was from a 2mph wind change.

John

 

For Ammo availability alone i went with .308 The ammo is always on a shelf. its more than capable at any distance i will shoot. This was one of the Remington 700p 5r 24" barreled actions that was once an option.

 

When we talk sniping I would say 300wm is where I would start in bolt gun and 6.5 creedmoor for a semi auto with a shorter barrel.

 

Depends on distance, I’d say. Within 800 m? I’d take a bolt or semi auto in 6.5…

Beyond 800? Consistently? 300 WM… maybe a 338 Lapua. That said the ballistics of 6.5 CM eerily follow a 300 WM. BC matters. A lot.