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How do you guys keep tight groups "All Day Long?"

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5.6K views 42 replies 28 participants last post by  oldandtired  
#1 ·
Since getting my Bassett scope mount a few weeks ago, I'm both amazed and perplexed. I've been shooting pretty decently with just irons and decided to get the scope mounted to see exactly what my rifle can do if I had glass.

I'm happy to report that I can get some pretty amazing groups and I've been able to find out what my rifle really likes. I've shot several sub-MOA groups and most groups fall under 1.5" all the time now with the occasional 1.6" to 1.8" group.

I typically warm up with 10 to 20 shots of 150gr. FMJ BLAMMO and the groups are usually around 2.5". Then I let my barrel cool down for about 5 to 10 minutes and I start my 5-shot accuracy groups. The typical pattern is 2 groups coming in at or below 1" and the third out to 1.2" to 1.4", then the 4th is just above 1.5" and any group after that is 1.2" to 1.8".

I try to time my shots with about 1 minute between shots and taking notes and giving my eyes a rest. I also take that minute to reset the shooting bag position for consistency.

Any suggestions on how to maintain the sub-1.5" accuracy? I drove myself crazy with this accuracy challenge and now I see it as my 'White Whale."

Is this typical? I've never done this kind of shooting before, so maybe there's a learning curve. I have some parallax with my scope but it's non-adjustable. I don't think it's the issue either.

Tony.
 
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#33 ·
This is almost exactly my experience with my M21. It took several tries before all groups were under 1.5" - and that was just barely. Warm-up is the same and results are almost identical. Honestly, I no longer
trouble myself over performance at 100 yards. 2 MOA is plenty good at that distance for all practical purposes. It's more important to me to hold around/under 2 MOA out from 300 to 600 yards. What I've found is that
my M21 will hold practically the same MOA as far as I've shot it (600 yards) as it does at 100. That type of consistency is fine with me.

You might try this target at 100 yards:

If you like it PM me and I'll send you a pdf file that will print correctly.
 
#34 ·
Thanks to everyone who has participated in this thread. I've learned some new things that I never thought of, like aiming for the bottom of circles like I do with irons. Why didn't I think of it?!

Also, my brass is sorted by weight. all brass is within 1 grain of the rest. I save the extreme light/heavy ones for the warm up/BLAMMO stuff. I use a RCBS 1500 powder dispenser and charge all weights to the same. If it's out 1/10th of a grain, I adjust it to match my target charge weight, then put it in the case. Then there's the "case for annealing"...

Maybe a follow-up question is:

What is your time interval between shots and what is your time interval between groups?
Does this seem to make a difference?

I was in a little bit of a rush. If I didn't make the first set under 1.5", I knew I would not have time to shoot a second set. I had paced myself to what I thought was a relaxing rate.

Maybe next time, I'll fire a 5-shot group in 5 to 7 minutes, then take 10 minutes to play with another rifle or help a friend, then go back and fire another 5-shot group in 5 to 7 minutes and repeat.

Or, maybe I should just forget the whole thing and head to the high power range and have fun ringing steel over and over....

I've had some fun and developed a great load. I think it's time to retire the bench for a few months and get back to prone at 200 & 300.

But by all means, if anyone has anything else to share or impart on all of us accuracy obsessed addicts, please do...

Tony.
 
#35 ·
I did not read all the post. Sorry if I am repeating a similar post.

Here is my answer to your question, How do you guys keep tight groups "All day long?".

In the Marines Corps there is a thing we call "Snapping in" in other words dry firing. You dry fire your weapon in the positions that your going to shoot, standing. kneeling, sitting, and prone for hours and hours a day, some times 8 hours in a day and then some more.

Do that for a week or two, then start firing live rounds. You'll be amazed with the results.
 
#36 · (Edited)
With all the rifles I've put to the bench I always shoot a few fowling shots. Then I support the forearm with a solid rest and bag the toe of the but stock. If I'm using a scope, I like very fine cross hairs and try to center the bull,opens will be a 6 o'clock hold. After everything is where it should be it's all breathing and finger control,some like to pull straight through ,I try to feel for the sear and let it break. After each shot in a string of 5 I try to only adjust the rear bag to get me back on,as little movement as possible, calm down, stage the trigger, let one go. For me this works and have shot some pretty good groups over the years even with lever guns. With the M1A... We will see once I get it unitized and shimmed and find a load it likes... Just need it to shoot better than me...1"+ with opens these days,if not it's still a great rifle. Lots of fun. Dan
 
#37 ·
Great thread Tony.
In answer to your last post, my attempt is to fire each 10 rnd string in a 60 second time frame. Once my position is established I fire the string without moving my cheek weld. I shoot my prairie dog steel coarse the same by shifting my body to move the poa. Whata hobby.
 
#38 ·
Brokenvet hit on something that costs absolutely nothing and is one of the very best training tools around and that is dry firing.

You can do it anywhere but make darned sure that there are no live rounds in the room where you are practicing. Then too make sure that your target is backed up by something that would stop a round if something went horribly wrong.

There's another trick they taught us at FBI police firearms instructor school and it is a technique called "ball and dummy". This is where the shooter has some one to hand him/her their weapon and the shooter must not know whether or not the weapon is loaded when they take their shot. Sometimes their helper will hand them a weapon with a round ready to fire and at other times the weapon will NOT have around in the chamber. This will quickly show whether or not the shooter is "anticipating recoil" (flinching) at the moment the trigger is pulled.

This technique is used primarly with new or problem shooters. However it doesn't hurt for even seasoned riflemen and pistoleros to get checked out with ball and dummy from time to time to see if they may have picked up a few bad shooting habits...

7th
 
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#39 ·
I hate shooting off the bench with a passion.. I do when required.. but hate it. And you mentioned aiming at the bottom of the circle, I prefer the corner, where the crosshairs line up with the edges of a square target..

For long distance irons shoots, depending on the target/frame, I have iron sight dope for holding at the corner of the target frame, just easier for me than a circle
 
#40 ·
Tony... usually when I go to the range to test out a load, I'll take 2 or more rifles along and switch around to let them cool off before firing another string. If I really take my time, I'll take one shot per minute so the barrel doesn't get too warm. By no means am I any kind of expert, but this is my normal routine.
 
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#42 ·
By far the best target for scope work for me is a hollow black square. (With a white interior that measures an inch) The edges of the hollow square are about half an inch thick.

It is quite natural to quarter a square with the cross hairs and aim at the centre of of it, and you can quite precisely judge exactly what your doing, because you can see it. (Unlike some targets which are round or coloured or seem to 'meld' with the cross hairs themselves, diamonds or crosses or other targets that have a dark centre right where you want to see what your cross hairs are doing.)

For iron sight targets I will use a black bull on a white background if I have a dark foresight - for light foresights like white or silver beads, I will use a white bull on a black background.

For scopes it doesnt seem to matter how big the square is, within reason, but with iron sights, the smaller the bull that you can see, the smaller my group will tend to be all other things remaining the same. Pyschological probably.
 
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#43 ·
all day long?

First of all,I recently acquired a beater m1a that I've gone over based on input from you (tonyben) and Gus,and haven't even fired yet. I've replaced the broken bolt roller,relieved the receiver on both ends at the points the roller was smacking it,shimmed the gas cylinder,replaced the 14" long operating rod spring with a fresh one,cleaned and lubed following your videos. Thank you both for putting what you've learned out here for the rest of us to benefit from,it helps immensely!
I shoot A LOT,both airguns and powder burners,and while the airguns are quieter,recoil free,and capable of unbelievable accuracy,I can't shoot them to their full potential all day long. White whale,indeed. It certainly sounds like you have the fundamentals down. My guess is equipment limitations and fatigue. And quite frankly,it doesn't sound like you're losing much as you get tired.
 
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