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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Competitors used data books to track zeroes, plot hits and record scores. The books also contained windage diagrams for M72 .30 cal. and M118 7.62 cal. USGI match ammo.

Windage diagrams were a great asset in competition. epending on range estimating skill they can be useful in the field.

Below is a link to an Adobe pdf file of the USMC Competitive Rifleman's Data Book (3951).

It contains Windage Diagrams for 200, 300, 600 & 1000 yards. The diagrams were created for competition on known distance ranges.

--The diagrams consist of a series of concentric circles.

--Each circle represents a wind velocity.

--The radial "spokes at 12 oclock & 6 oclock show the wind velocity for that circle.

--The roman numerals around the perimeter are the clock position for wind direction.

--To use the diagram: (A) determine range. (B) estimate wind direction & velocity. (C) pick out the velocity circle. (D) follow the circle to the roman numeral wind direction. (E) read the windage correction. (F) put the correction on the sight.

Example: From the 300 yd diagram assuming a 9 oclock (IX) 15 MPH wind shows (4) 1/2 MOA CLICKS = (2) MOA of windage adjustment required.

NOTE: These diagrams are for NM rear sights with 1/2 MOA clicks. For a standard 1 MOA per click rear sight reduce by half.

The book also contains: (A) target diagrams with size info, (B) plotting sheets, (C) weapon data form.

The only thing it lacks is info on how to estimate wind speed.

I recommend that anyone interested in this download and save it - it could disappear at any time. It is a pdf file and can be printed out.

Link: https://www.inlex.net/feck/RiflemansDataBook.PDF
 

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Those "Windage Charts", "Vector Charts", or whatever they are called, are nothing new. They have been around for a long time. They are like moly bullets - they seem to pop up at least once in every generation of shooters, disappear, and then pop up again.

They sound like a great idea - until you try to use one while shooting a match. By the time you estimate the wind, check the flags, and then consult the chart, conditions change or you mis-read the correction needed, which results in a missed shot.

Been there, done that!

Ray
 

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If you looking for a data book like the USMC Competitive Rifleman's Data Book (3951). You can get them from Nicolaus Associates.com
 
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Those "Windage Charts", "Vector Charts", or whatever they are called, are nothing new. They have been around for a long time. They are like moly bullets - they seem to pop up at least once in every generation of shooters, disappear, and then pop up again.

They sound like a great idea - until you try to use one while shooting a match. By the time you estimate the wind, check the flags, and then consult the chart, conditions change or you mis-read the correction needed, which results in a missed shot.

Been there, done that!

Ray
They're pretty handy for the first shot and when you get lost.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Those "Windage Charts", "Vector Charts", or whatever they are called, are nothing new. They have been around for a long time. They are like moly bullets - they seem to pop up at least once in every generation of shooters, disappear, and then pop up again.

They sound like a great idea - until you try to use one while shooting a match. By the time you estimate the wind, check the flags, and then consult the chart, conditions change or you mis-read the correction needed, which results in a missed shot.

Been there, done that!

Ray
A lot of truth in that. In an NRA match where non scoring sighting shots were allowed, making a windage SWAG, seeing where it landed and adjusting from there worked fine.

However, I relied on the charts in matches where sighters were not allowed. My windage SWAGs were/are not worth a bucket of warm spit.

There are competitors who can eyeball the flags and check mirage thru the scope and from experience dial in the correct wind. I was never in that group.
 

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There are competitors who can eyeball the flags and check mirage thru the scope and from experience dial in the correct wind. I was never in that group.
Don't feel bad misery loves company......... I'm in the same boat. I will say I'm getting better up here in the PNW there is more green stuff too see moving, the Desert SW everything is half dead with rigamortice setting in fast.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Don't feel bad misery loves company......... I'm in the same boat. I will say I'm getting better up here in the PNW there is more green stuff too see moving, the Desert SW everything is half dead with rigamortice setting in fast.
I hear ya.

Here in southern CO it is semi desert. Takes a lot of wind to wiggle a cholla or yucca. Plenty of that stuff on the shooting range.

Everything around here will either bite you, stab you or sting you.
 

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Windage charts are basically ball park estimates. They can get you close, especially if you are new to the game, but there are too many conditions on the range to rely on their accuracy. Keeping good records on conditions, loads, etc. are much more reliable. There is nothing to beat experience.
 

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They're pretty handy for the first shot and when you get lost.
Or at the Camp Perry leg match or President's 100 when the flags are shredding themselves straight out and you are nervous about putting 14 clicks of wind for your first shot at 600 yards. I always used to fret over that. I suppose everyone's got a wind meter now, but we didn't have those when I was shooting - You could always hope for some AMU HM to take pitty on you and give you the wind ;)

However; it may also be the case that the wind flags aren't the same material as they were when the charts were first made, but I don't remember the details - whether they were once heavy material and now nylon - something like that could affect the accuracy of the wind estimation charts.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Or at the Camp Perry leg match or President's 100 when the flags are shredding themselves straight out and you are nervous about putting 14 clicks of wind for your first shot at 600 yards. I always used to fret over that. I suppose everyone's got a wind meter now, but we didn't have those when I was shooting - You could always hope for some AMU HM to take pitty on you and give you the wind ;)

However; it may also be the case that the wind flags aren't the same material as they were when the charts were first made, but I don't remember the details - whether they were once heavy material and now nylon - something like that could affect the accuracy of the wind estimation charts.
Now they have anemometers that plug into a smartphone to measure wind velocity. Also have a ballistics calculator in the phone to tell them the correction to put on. Sheesh, lets go to laser guided bullets and get it over with.

There was concern years ago that new range flags did not fly the way the old ones did. Not sure if that was ever resolved.
 

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The old charts were made up back when the flags were made of cotton. God help you when the flags got wet. The new flags are made of nylon. Flags are good for direction but a good or even a cheap wind meter work better for determining wind velocity before starting your string of fire. Experience will teach you what to look for later on. Things like mirage, grass, trees and even the feel of the wind on your skin. Sometimes, seeing where other shooters shots are going can give you a clue about conditions. The hardest condition to shoot in for me is when the wind is coming in from behind.
 
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