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Discussion Starter #1
Ok I've been looking for a new 1911 with light rail so I can have a backup 1911 to use with my SAI Mil-Spec... I love this pistol its a close replica to the orginal WWII model with some modern day mods... Never any issues minus the spring plunger coming loose after 2,000 + plus rounds.... I've since fixed that last week...

Models I've looked at are:

SAI MC Operator very close to the MEU SOC 1911 config. I knew the Marines bought a lot of SA's pistols to test... due to the fact the frame and slides are all steel hammer forged 4140 steel.

Kimber Warrior is the other pistol I've looked at.... I read on open source that this pistol was chosin by the MEU SOC teams... however I see no were in the Federal Budget Office website were Kimber won the contract as of yet... Plus Wiki says they won... but I don't believe it yet...

I have yet to see a US Marine pictured on a Assualt Carrier training with a Kimber. I do see a lot of MEU SOCs 1911's with Springfield Armory Slides...

Basically I'm wanting a MEU SOC pistol for my other everyday carry pistol in Indiana... I don't worry about hidding the thing ... nor do I have to...

I read that Kimber frames and slides are cast not forged is this true... Not to say this a down side... my friend has a Kimber TLE and its a nice pistol..... MINUS the plastic mainspring housing...

Thoughts on which pistol to buy??? Please.... SAI MC Operator or Kimber Warrior?

Regards, Madog
 

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Both are decent enough, but if you are considering spending that kind of money have you considered a real deal Colt?
 

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Getting a current day American made 1911 is very difficult in my neck of the woods! So when I had the chance to come across a new Kimber Desert Warrior a few years back I jumped onto it, even if it cost me an arm and a leg! I never regretted it! It is a high quality handgun, high end craftmanship and finish, extremly accurate and it eats every ammo I feed it!
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Yes... I was looking at Colts... I think whats going to happen whichever pistol I pick is going to be a custom 1911...

So with that regards, Which custom shop is best.... Colt, SAI, or Kimber?

I'm wanting a 1911 with 1913 rail... hammer forged steel slide and frame.... and series 70 firing system and GI guide rod... with Match barrel/bushing.

I imagine this thing will cost between 1400 - 2400 dollars?

I guess calling each custom shop and asking them is the best start? .... I've never had a customized weapon before.... always got of the shelf stuff... but I'm willing to do this due to the fact I shoot 100rds a month in my 1911 and M1A.... so I need a Professional type 1911 ...

Regards, Madog
 

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You could spend days on the 1911.com forum doing research:
http://forums.1911forum.com/index.php

With respect to happy owners of Kimbers, especially older ones, there are 3 things to consider before buying one in my personal opinion: plastic MSH, Swartz safety, and unsatisfactory customer service. Personally, I have no problem with the Swartz safety but you need to know what it is, how it works, and the potential problems. My experience with Kimber "customer service" drove me to replace the extractor in my brand new CDP Pro. My first gunsmithing fixed the problem.

The Springfield Custom Shop takes a long time to build a pistol, but it's worth the wait IMHO. I did expect them to call me before starting the build just to confirm specs since I'd been waiting for months, but all I got was a "we're ready to ship so what's your credit card number?" call.

This pistol isn't anything like what you're after but I like it! FRG1

Compact Custom Carry 4" ramped barrel chambered in 9x23 Winchester.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Were does Colt get their Frames and Slides from? Are they Hammer Forged 4140 steel?

Does Caspian provide them to Colt?

All of SAI's slides and frames are made by IMBEL in Brazil... w/hammer forged 4140 steel... very well built slides and frames... then the custom shop in Illinois finishes out the pistol...

Regards, Madog
 

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I've actually worked my way up that 1911 food chain... I started with a standard Colt Series 80, although it was pretty it was an '80's era Colt and did not perform well. Next was a Springfield, it functioned well enough but we never really got along. It would shoot empties right back in my face, the wretch. Sold it to my brother...

Then I bought a Kimber Pro Eclipse (4") and, after 10 years now, we are still very much in love. It is my everyday carry piece, and has never failed me. I don't really care much about the MIM mainspring housing or whether the slide is forged or cast... I could care less. It works 100% and I have total confidence in it.

My brother and I will go shooting now and then; occasionally I will swap him for The Wretch, and I'm always convinced the Kimber is much more pistol than the Springy ever was.

My thoughts...? Why spend $2K on a 'custom' work pistol? For that you could almost buy 2 Kimbers and be done with it. I went to the shop with the intention of buying a box stock Springfield and building it up, but when I saw the Kimber setting there with essentially everything I wanted and a warranty, well, that was the easiest $1000 I ever spent.
 

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Of the type you seem to want, the only one I have had experience with is the Kimber Warrior. The one I bought 2nd hand about 2-3 years ago was worn-out and unreliable- believe it or not. I also read a post here somewhere implying that the Kimbers are not as good as they were because their machinery was getting old. Sounds pretty logical to me. Beyond that, I'm pretty sure that a new Kimber Desert Warrior would do you just fine, but I might put a few Wilson "Bullet Proof" parts inside of her, just to be safe.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I saw were Wilson Combat makes a CQB combat 1911 now.... I've inquired to them about the pistol... but its by far the highest priced of all the CQB 1911's I've seen yet... minus maybe the Ed Brown "Special Forces" ... both are pushing the 3,000 range....

I'm wondering how much Colt will charge for CQB 1911 w/series 70 firing system and GI type recoil... Or if Colt even builds custom 70 series pistols like that??? I know they make replica short run models...

My SAI Mil-Spec is a great traditional type pistol with a few modern-day mods to help it function even better... I'm just wanting a CQB/light rail 1911 now.... so I've got a solid back up pistol when one goes in for a refit...

Regards, Madog
 

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MadDog - have you looked at Les Baer 1911s? Here's one that might fit all of your requirements:
Ultimate Recon It's a custom order though and $2,200.

I had a chance to buy a really clean Les Baer for $1,100 at a gun show about 6 months ago and have been kicking myself ever since for leaving it on the table.

Charlie98 - I'd be happy to buy and/or shoot your Kimber. At 10 years old, it is pre-Series II and does not have the Swartz safety. Your MSH obviously is made of some kind of metal - mine is made of "polymer" a.k.a. plastic! Finally, it works great so you don't need their "customer service".

My impression is that Kimbers were fantastic 1911s for years. Recently, however, the company moved to New York and was taken over by bean counters. Kind of like GM in the late '60s. You all know what happened to their QC then.

My Kimber works fine now that I've fixed the poorly tuned extractor and floppy firing pin stop. Wilson Combat mags work great. A metal MSH is on the way. The pistol is great to look at.

I just don't expect to be told I'm most likely getting 3-point jams because I'm limp wristing the pistol! Plus, why should have to do work on the gun out of the box and buy after-market magazines to get it to function reliably?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Yeah that looks very nice....

I've looked at Ed Browns Special Forces model too....

I've also looked at Wilson Combat CQB Tactical LE... Nice weapon as well.... Does anyone have any ideas against the GI modifed spring and plunger system Wilson Combat uses? My understanding there is NO bushing...

SAI priced me $2695 not a bad price... that includes 7x Wilson Combat 7x rd mags tuned to the pistol... and a extra extractor tuned to the pistol...

I'm now seeing 4x models/companies to pick from and I still need to call Colt and see what they can do... I've kinda ruled Kimber out.... Not that they are bad guns... I'm just not willing to pay almost the same money for a MIM frame/slide... I think the system is proven... but I like the orginal way of making 1911s...

Best Regards, Madog... keep up the thoughts... Its making me think this thing through.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
WILD... I called Colt... they were very friendly and informed me that the custom shop doesn't build series 70 firing pistols...

I find this ODD due to the fact they still build replica model series 70 pistols....

Regards, Madog
 

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Madog- if you're talking about 3G customs, you have to include the Nighthawks in the equation. My Nighthawk Custom Predator is the finest 1911-style pistol I've ever fired, and I've owned a few, including several Les Baers.
 

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Get a Colt , I have beento Novaks in Parkersburg WV and they build 1911's for SF's and they told me their build gunof choice is Colt. So I bought me a new stainless 70 series re-issue.DI2
 

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Charlie98 - I'd be happy to buy and/or shoot your Kimber. At 10 years old, it is pre-Series II and does not have the Swartz safety. Your MSH obviously is made of some kind of metal - mine is made of "polymer" a.k.a. plastic!
To be honest... I've never even heard of a Swartz safety. Hmmm... time to do some research.

Since I've had my Kimber I've not really looked at any others because I'm quite happy with mine, so I didn't realize Kimber HQ had moved. That's sad to hear. The price you pay for a Kimber... well, it should damn well work.

WILD... I called Colt... they were very friendly and informed me that the custom shop doesn't build series 70 firing pistols...

I find this ODD due to the fact they still build replica model series 70 pistols....

Regards, Madog


I was under the impression they were building Series70 pistols out of the custom shop as well. I think the vintage reissues are S70's... Hmmm...
 

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Discussion Starter #16
WILD... I called Colt... they were very friendly and informed me that the custom shop doesn't build series 70 firing pistols...

I find this ODD due to the fact they still build replica model series 70 pistols....

Regards, Madog


I was under the impression they were building Series70 pistols out of the custom shop as well. I think the vintage reissues are S70's... Hmmm...
Yes thats what surprised me... I know colt makes 3x series 70 type firearms.... the two Series 70 blued and stainless and the WWI model..... But I asked the lady twice if they make customized pistols in series 70 format.... she told me NO...... I Can't believe it... I'm almost wanting to call back and get a second answer....

Regards, Madog
 

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I just a bought new Colt Rail Gun myself, and I stole it off Gun Broker for under $850! It is a S80, but has almost every other options you are looking for.

In regard to your call to Colt, I think you might want to rephrase your question to will they customize a S70 gun instead of build one for you from scratch. As Colt sells several S70 guns, it might be feasible to purchase a base model and have their custom shop upgrade it with everything that you want.
 

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Were does Colt get their Frames and Slides from? Are they Hammer Forged 4140 steel?

Does Caspian provide them to Colt?

All of SAI's slides and frames are made by IMBEL in Brazil... w/hammer forged 4140 steel... very well built slides and frames... then the custom shop in Illinois finishes out the pistol...

Regards, Madog
Colt makes their own slides and frames in their own factory right there in Hartford, Ct, USA. They also make their own barrels and a lot of their small parts. They do use custom parts on some guns that are subcontracted like some of the fancy grip safeties, thumb safetys, triggers, sights etc. Occasionally for some pistols the barrels may be subcontracted like the barrel and entire recoil system in the Defender 90 and Agent series or so I've been told. In 1990 when I took my armorers course in their custom shop everything was made in house at that time.
 

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Colt makes their own slides and frames in their own factory right there in Hartford, Ct, USA. They also make their own barrels and a lot of their small parts. They do use custom parts on some guns that are subcontracted like some of the fancy grip safeties, thumb safetys, triggers, sights etc. Occasionally for some pistols the barrels may be subcontracted like the barrel and entire recoil system in the Defender 90 and Agent series or so I've been told. In 1990 when I took my armorers course in their custom shop everything was made in house at that time.


I'll vouch for that. Since 1990, they actually retooled the 1911 line.


You see, Colt is a manufacturer.... not an assembly broker.

Wanna see a Colt 1911 that's destined to be a winner? I'm all over this baby.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHfgGgXm8A0&feature=related[/ame]
 

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I belive that Kimber 1911s were always made in NY. Yonkers NY to be more specific. The factory used to be called Jerico Precision Manufacturing.
 
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