M14 Forum banner
1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
57 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Question #1
what is your average group size?

100 yards
offhand
no sling around the bicep
iron sights?
slow fire

I shot my mini 14 and m1a today doing that and was staying on target at about 8 inches. I know i need practice but was curious what most are capable of in those conditions? Also I was using steel cased ammo.

Question #2
How do you practice your field positions at the range? Do you just move in front of the bench?

Question #3
Where can i find a tutorial showing how to prepare a shooting sling to go around the bicep? It's been a few years since i've done it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,293 Posts
The 10 ring is 7" on an SR. 9 is 13". I generally don't practice offhand at 100, because the range that allow me to shoot offhand have a 200 line.

I don't measure my groups that I shoot when position shooting. A clean is a clean regardless if it's a 1" group or a 3" group. I have not cleaned an offhand target yet. It's all practice.

I have shot between benches, in front, etc. Where we have matches in Dallas at one club, you are in front of the benches.

There are a metric ton of terrible videos showing sling use. Most show improper usage. Watch others. For online I would google Ray-Vin and on the FAQ there are some photos on sling use.

Others will chime in with better info.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,672 Posts
Question #1
what is your average group size?

100 yards
offhand
no sling around the bicep
iron sights?
slow fire

I group from 4 to 8" depending on how much I'm shooting and how much go juice I've had.


I shot my mini 14 and m1a today doing that and was staying on target at about 8 inches. I know i need practice but was curious what most are capable of in those conditions? Also I was using steel cased ammo.

Question #2
How do you practice your field positions at the range? Do you just move in front of the bench?

I move to the side for standing, sitting and prone.

Question #3
Where can i find a tutorial showing how to prepare a shooting sling to go around the bicep? It's been a few years since i've done it!
I prefer a web sling
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRPfj-6bRZM[/ame]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,966 Posts
So an offhand group size? About 8-12". If I am really paying attention I can go about 50-50 on clay birds at 100M and hit an animal in the vitals at 200. A buttstock weight really helps for offhand shooting as these rifles are less than perfectly balanced.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
365 Posts
Group sizes? 9 out of 10 shots inside 12 ". About half inside 8". But still working to get better.

At Carter's Country on Treaschwig in Houston, it is permitted to stand so long as one keeps the bench seat between his legs... they don't want people moving further and further back. The only person I've ever seen there who did something other than shoot off the bench is me.

For setting up the sling, the Mind over Matter video, available from CMP and also on Amazon, is where i learned (Amazon has a lot faster delivery). You may find it a little pricey, but there's a lot of good advice on it by the US Army Markmanship Unit (AMU) in addition to setting up the sling. One of the instructors at Appleseed shoot commented I was the only first-timer he'd ever seen who showed up already knowing how to use the sling. He had been a member of the AMU back in the day, so I think he'd know.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,900 Posts
The video offered for use of GI web sling is a good one and would say that sling is an excellent one for match style shooting. As mentioned I don't concern myself with groups but score only. Most quality service rifles will hold 1moa+ from rest/bench but that is not really testing the shooter, but the rifle itself. Some suggestions on improving your off hand scores would be to take a stand with your toes/boot lined up with the target(standing sideways if you will) with an imaginary line leading to the target. This gets you at least partially lined up. Regardless of type of sling(must be attached to the rifle rule wise) have it slung tightly(as in parade mode) not loose where it will swing around and cause your muzzle to move also, not good. Shoulder the rifle, look through your sights, and then shut your eyes for a few seconds and upon opening where is the muzzle pointed?? If it to right or left, low or high, you can correct that with the position of your feet. If right handed, your left foot is considered your "anchor foot" and it must not move(opposite for lefty shooters.) If muzzle is to the right of the target, move right foot forward a small amount and repeat eye closing technique. If left of target move right foot rearward a bit. Eventually you will open your eyes and be pretty well lined up on the bulls eye. If you see your front sight higher than it should be, spread your stance which lowers you somewhat. If low, close your stance and that raises the sight picture you will see. Again your anchor foot should not move for this to work for you. All of the above is assuming you have sighted in your rifle/load for the range being shot and are using your stance/body for sight adjustments in standing position. Upon first starting HP shooting and prior to having a coach I definitely got my monies worth on each target for I used the whole thing and then some! Did not happen overnight, but after a while would turn in scores at 200yd Off Hand in the mid nineties w/ some X's thrown in. Best reference/training source in printed form are the books by Jim Owens for not only sling use, but all the positions and much more. Believe Fulton Armory offers them for sale these days?? Good luck to you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
252 Posts
I have been trying to improve my offhand position and groups for several years. I would recommend trying a few different things to find the best combination that WORKS FOR YOU. From top to bottom, try bringing the rifle up to you in the highest comfortable position where you can keep your head straight up. Many guys sort of bring their heads down to the rifle. I have found that a high position works well for me. Try a few different hand holds with your non-firing hand. There many variations. Some folks position the hand way out near the front sling swivel, and others hold the base of the magazine. There are many places in between. I have found what works best for me is wearing a mitt, with my hand in a reverse position ( "U" shaped with thumb and index finger facing me). I position this hand just forward of the front of the magazine. Also, some prefer using a glove as opposed to a mitt on the non-firing hand.

As with any position, find the right footing relationship to your target that will allow you to find a "natural point of aim." Close your eyes, inhale, exhale, then open your eyes to see if you are still properly aligned with the target. make adjustments accordingly.

Once I worked out the best combinations of the above, I found the best improvement in scores after exhausting dry fire practice at home. On the interior of my garage overhead door, I pasted a small 1" X 2" square buff colored target paper with a really small aiming black circle in the center. This approximately gives me the same sight picture as standing at the 200 yard line. I wear all my gear, hooded sweatshirt, coat, hat, glasses, earplugs, etc. I also position my stool and spotting scope during dry fire. I am pretty well smoked after 30 rounds of dry fire in this manner, and start to loose concentration. It sounds pretty involved, but I actually call my dry fire shots just as I do for live fire.

Now, when I get to the firing line, I position all of my gear in same configuration that allows me to have minimal movement between shots. I used to record every shot in a score book, but I think I loose focus on the position with all the movement involved in marking up the book. I take the shot, rest the rifle butt on the stool, secure another round, peer through scope, and start the cycle over again for each shot.

This is what has worked for me after many years of shooting the dreaded offhand in highpower matches. Now that I have developed a better regimen for this position, I like it more than ever.

By the way, 125 grain Speer TNT loads with 41.5 grains of H4895 in a LC case makes life all better at 200 offhand and rapid fire sitting. Good luck sir!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,331 Posts
I try to keep 2" or better at 100 .I shoot clay birds on the burm offhand for practice at 200quite a bit and can generally break 24 out of 25 or so .My longest streak is 179 at 200
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
128 Posts
1).
8" at 100 is very good if you are shooting 10 round groups.
That would put your score in the Mid to upper 80's on a SR-1 target.
My average 30-06 group is about an 88 which would be between 7 & 8" 10 shot group. My best in competition is 6".

2).
I practice standing between shooting benches. (no leaning on benches)

3).
Standing Sling: Not an option for me. I tried it a few times with dismal results.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
947 Posts
Question #1
what is your average group size?

100 yards
offhand
no sling around the bicep
iron sights?
slow fire

I shot my mini 14 and m1a today doing that and was staying on target at about 8 inches. I know i need practice but was curious what most are capable of in those conditions? Also I was using steel cased ammo.

Question #2
How do you practice your field positions at the range? Do you just move in front of the bench?

Question #3
Where can i find a tutorial showing how to prepare a shooting sling to go around the bicep? It's been a few years since i've done it!
(1) 9 ring, usually. I average in the low-to-mid-90s in offhand.
(2) There's no bench. It's an actual rifle range.
(3) http://www.odcmp.com/Comm/Publications.htm
USAMU Service Rifle Marksmanship Guide
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,331 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,019 Posts
Question 1/3: Offhand, at 200 yds, on an SR-C target, I now shoot mostly 10s with a few 9s and an occasional 7/8. This is during practice with my competition M14. I've been working on my process to eliminate the "in the white" shot. (Inconsistency drops points.) No sling allowed in the matches I shoot.

In competition, I've just started to achieve low 90s. Still too much adrenaline during the match!

Question 2: I practice all positions on a concrete pad with a shooting mat for sitting and prone. I move the tables out of the way.

One technique that helps me shooting offhand is having a partner. After I shoot and before I look in the scope, I say what my sight picture was when the shot broke (I.e. shot broke slightly right of center, front sight a little below the black), then the shot call (I.e. 5 o'clock, 9 ring). My partner confirms the call (or not) by looking in the scope . This forces active retention of sight picture and what you were doing when the shot broke. You can then work on the wobble, trigger squeeze, breathing, and rifle position from this exercise. If you start to drift alot from your calls, time for a break and regroup. HTH.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top