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Discussion Starter #1
Hey guys,
Well I finally took my JRA M1A out to the range for some good range time on the last nice day we are going to have here in MI. I happened to notice this happened to my target though. I was prone, using a sling, and at 100 yards. Ammo was 148gr Priv.

Can anyone tell me why I am stringing them across like this? I am putting the pumpkin on the post when aiming but all of my targets looked like this....thoughts?
Weapon of choice:

Any why did this happen? This is where my sling was, hurts like a bia!

Thanks in advance!
Bill H.
 

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I have a few questions

How familiar are you with shooting the M14 style rifle?
What is your shooting background?
How did you learn your shooting technique?
What are the specifics about your rifle?
What ammo did you use?
What was your shooting position?
What kind of surface were you sitting, kneeling, standing, laying on?
What was the weather like?

I ask these questions to help troubleshoot your target so please don't infer anything negative about my questions, I certainly don't mean to offend.

One of the best group troubleshooting guides I have ever read can be found at this link;http://www.rifleman.org.uk/Fuller_group_diagnosis.htm

In general there are four things that you would generally review when you look at your groups;

  • You
  • The Rifle
  • The ammunition
  • The Weather

The marks on your arm are pretty common when you use a good sling position, I always got them when I fired for score in competition, it's just a broken capillaries in your arm from the sling compressing your skin. That is nothing to be worried about and if you intend to do a lot of target shooting you will either find a good shooting jacket that will help eliminate the problem or you will just get used to it.

All that those marks tell me is that you had a good tight sling and with what little I can glean from the target my guess is that either your position was changing or the rifle has some issues or both combined. A six o'clock hold is good enough for standard combat shooting but if you want better accuracy then you need to hold the top of the front site on the spot where you want the bullet to impact. In my personal experience, I only used the six o'clock hold while in combat in the military but I always used the direct aim point when I was trying to compete for score and/or accuracy. My personal opinion is that a six o'clock hold will usually result in a group of a couple MOA at any range, there is an old saying "aim small, miss small".

The left to right pattern could be caused by your elbows creeping apart if you were in the prone or the barrel could be coming in contact with something. Until you post a little more info I can't really make an informed comment so please post answers to the questions above if you can or you might be able to find your problem by just reading the info at that link I provided. If you have never had any formal marksmanship training see if you can attend an Appleseed shoot. Their training is very similar to the marksmanship training I received in the Marine Corps and it is very helpful, not to mention, they have some really good historical info too.

Good luck and keep working at it, all it takes is experience and technique and you will only get that by doing a lot of shooting and taking range notes and getting some help along the way from others.
 
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First off, nice rifle Bill. Could be a lot of reasons for the horizontal stringing such as you have. Since it is a new rifle, I try to determine if the problem is you, or the rifle. Try shooting from a bench w/sand bag rest w/o using the sling. If your groups tighten up a bunch, you will know that it is how you are locking up in your sling/prone position. If the keeper on the sling is digging into your inner arm, you can't be concentrating on your target aquisition as you should. I would like to ask how the gas plug is removed for PM, with the bayo lugged FS? dozier
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I have a few questions

How familiar are you with shooting the M14 style rifle?I just know the basic's how to take apart, how to clean, how to load, and how to fire. Otherwise I know really nothing about them.
What is your shooting background?Pretty basic. I started shooting when I was 7 on a 10/22 scoped. Have done 3 CMP Garand matches, otherwise just a hobby. I did however learn to take up the first stage and breathe out, then squeeze the trigger to the rear when it gets back on target.
How did you learn your shooting technique?I took a Garand class held by a gentleman on the CMP forums whom teaches shooting and competitions for Camp Perry. His SN on CMP is grumpyolesweade (or close to that)
What are the specifics about your rifle?JRA CAR-14. 18" criterion barrel. Otherwise, just standard GI parts
What ammo did you use? Priv 148 gr
What was your shooting position? Prone on a shooting mat with sling on my left arm
What kind of surface were you sitting, kneeling, standing, laying on? Gravel/rocks
What was the weather like?Beautiful sunny day, about 65 deg or so, mild-no wind.
No offense taken at all! They just had an Appleseed shoot at my local club but it filled up very fast. I am going to start reloading this winter but do not do much shooting in the winter due to the snow and being in Michigan it really does not help. I however have not got any training other than the CMP clinic that was put on which was a total of 4 hours. 2 of which were spent in a class room, others slinging up and figuring out our Garands.
First off, nice rifle Bill
Thank you :)
I would like to ask how the gas plug is removed for PM, with the bayo lugged FS?Gas plug comes out no problem, the piston however does not. To clean the piston half of it comes out the top, other half I drop out the bottom
I appreciate the quick responses from you guys though. I however do not believe that it's the rifle and I want to believe it is me. I am new to the whole competitive shooting and normally shoot .22's or handguns so this high power stuff is a new game to me.
 

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If I were watching over your shoulder, the first thing I would look for is you holding a "too tight sling" position. That will do exactly what you have on your target, . . . ranging left to right.

At least it does for me.

Yes the sling needs to be tight, . . . but it can be pulled to the point that it becomes a liability, . . . and I would say try to let up on the sling pressure a tad.

May God bless,
Dwight
 

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Even without a sling at 100 yard that's some extreme stringing for the given range in prone.

Something is either remarkable wrong with the ammo, OR your rifle's receiver is a very loose fit in the stock and its moving OR your sights are moving OR your barrel is not drawn tight enough and is moving OR your bullets are hitting whatever muzzle device you have installed or the muzzle device itself is very loose.

Make sure your front sight is not loose....!

Something is loose. Could be gas plug but that would usually show vertical stringing not horizontal...

Im stating the above with the assumption that you are a fairly capable marksman...
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Even without a sling at 100 yard that's some extreme stringing for the given range in prone.

Something is either remarkable wrong with the ammoPossible I guess, but priv is good ammo from what I have heard, OR your rifle's receiver is a very loose fit in the stockI have to hit the stock twice with my palm for it to come off of the receiver when taking it apart and its moving OR your sights are movingJust checked everything is tight, no movement OR your barrel is not drawn tight enough and is movingNot exactly sure what to check here as I do not know what this means. OR your bullets are hitting whatever muzzle device you have installed or the muzzle device itself is very looseBrake is tight and I see no marks in it with a bore light..

Make sure your front sight is not loose....!

Something is loose. Could be gas plug but that would usually show vertical stringing not horizontal...Gas plug is tight and torqued

Im stating the above with the assumption that you are a fairly capable marksman..LOL this is a far stretch.
One thing I should add is the time before last I was out, I would get 3 shot groups at about 10 o'clock about 4" from the bulls and also in the same mag 3 shot groups in the black. Could cheek rest affect this? I don't always catch myself with a good cheek rest on the stock.
 

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One thing I should add is the time before last I was out, I would get 3 shot groups at about 10 o'clock about 4" from the bulls and also in the same mag 3 shot groups in the black. Could cheek rest affect this? I don't always catch myself with a good cheek rest on the stock.
If your "hold" is bad, yes you could get this. I dont know what kind of skills you have. Not hitting the bullseye is not so much of an issue as not getting "reasonable" groups from prone at 100. Tight groups define consistency in your shooting, if the rifle is in good order. If your hold is not solid, or even if it is but not consistent from shot to shot, anything can happen. Practice is all I can say at this point... Good luck! MCORPS1

Barrel draw is how "tight" the barrel is screwed onto the receiver, in laymans terms anyway. I dont think thats the problem, so dont worry about it. Just make sure the front sight is not moving and practice, practice, practice....
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Should this piece have play in it? I can move it around pretty good and did not know if this is bad or not. I can also move the op rod around because of this...
 

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Should this piece have play in it? I can move it around pretty good and did not know if this is bad or not. I can also move the op rod around because of this...
Thats the op rod guide and YES that could be (probably is) a problem... It should not move...! You'll have to get that fixed...That will get things all out of whack!
 

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Discussion Starter #11
So if it moves side to side it IS a problem? If I move it to one side, I can see part of the piston and can how it would push the op rod in a certain direction.
Anyone else to back this up? Just want to be sure before I call JRA to send it back.
 

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So if it moves side to side it IS a problem? If I move it to one side, I can see part of the piston and can how it would push the op rod in a certain direction.
Anyone else to back this up? Just want to be sure before I call JRA to send it back.
It is not supposed to move. It will throw your barrel harmonics into a fit. It will eventually work itself off the boss on the barrel. You have to get it fixed before you shoot it anymore.
 

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So this could potentially throw my shot off?
Yes, Im 100 percent sure its whats causing it. You have to fix it, not just for accuracy sake, but if it comes off and goes forward and off the op rod, "look out", things will start coming apart at a rapid rate of speed.

I knew "something" was loose, did I not...?
 

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Not good. Get it fixed. Usually the barrel boss is knurled and then the guide is "loctited" (red) in place over it. The pin is supposed to prevent it from moving forward and it might for a while, but if it sheers its coming off the boss and is going to go forward and come of the op rod. Your op rod will then go flying in some direction, hopefully not back into your face. If you continue to shoot it, hope for the best, but don't expect to hit what your aiming at....At 300+ yards you'll miss the target frame altogether most likely....
 

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Oh... ouch... rifle needs a doctor's appointment. GI8
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Not good. Get it fixed. Usually the barrel boss is knurled and then the guide is "loctited" (red) in place over it. The pin is supposed to prevent it from moving forward and it might for a while, but if it sheers its coming off the boss and is going to go forward and come of the op rod. Your op rod will then go flying in some direction, hopefully not back into your face. If you continue to shoot it, hope for the best, but don't expect to hit what your aiming at....At 300+ yards you'll miss the target frame altogether most likely....
Not to sound dumb but what is the barrel boss? The guide has no play forward or back, just left to right.
 

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Not to sound dumb but what is the barrel boss? The guide has no play forward or back, just left to right.
Part of the barrel where the guide sits on the barrel. If its a standard weight barrel its the fatter part of the barrel that the guide is attached to. Looks like lump in the barrel's throat, so to speak, like it swallowed a frog and it got caught right there...

Left and right play like that will become fore and aft play if you let it go long enough....

Your rifle is in "return to the armory condition" at the moment....
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Awesome! I really appreciate this guys! I will be calling JRA on Monday and posting what they have to say about it.
 
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