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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So I hear a lot of people pissing on called for gun control measures, and I agree that is the correct first response for gun owners. But the reality is that in the face of such tragedies if gun owners are going to preserve their rights they are going to have to be the people who shape the reform that is coming. If we fight tooth and nail against every scrap of change we are going to be the losers outright. I would like to hear what gun law, mental health, and media reforms gun owners would support.

Start Topics
1. Gun Registration
2. Gun owner licencing (Drivers Licence Style)
3. Adding Semi Automatic rifles to the Class 3 list
4. Limiting gun sales to a certain number of each type per unit of time.
5. Tracking ammo sales
6. Micro Stamping
7. Gun lock and Storage Laws
8. Mental Health Reporting
9. Preventing Video Game Violence

I too realize the old adage that "give them an inch they will take a mile" but they are going to take that inch whether we give an inch or not. How can we stop the mile.
 

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Cranky Old Vietnam Vet
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Sorry.

None of the above.

Those 'solutions' won't work...most have been proven not to work!

Most are sheer silliness---"semi-autos rifles to be Class III...
There goes my Marlin Papoose .22 !
GI5
Except for #8 in your list...How many do YOU think would have made a difference of any kind in the latest Conn School Shooting?
Seriously?

CAVman in WYoming
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
CAVman I see you are resisting change. I just presented those topics as a starter. I really want to know what other people think. Do you have any ideas that you think will work. If we aren't the ones who present the change then the change we are given I know we won't like.
 

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Yes, here's some change that will help. At the state level, remove the prohibition on legal CCW carry in K-12 schools and churches, as applicable.

Another idea would be to establish a training curriculum on diaster response by a private industry association for school administrators and teachers. This may have already been done, I don't know. The point is that educators should be trained in how to properly respond in the event of a fire, active shooter, nearby chemical release, etc.
 

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Yes, here's some change that will help. At the state level, remove the prohibition on legal CCW carry in K-12 schools and churches, as applicable.

Another idea would be to establish a training curriculum on diaster response by a private industry association for school administrators and teachers. This may have already been done, I don't know. The point is that educators should be trained in how to properly respond in the event of a fire, active shooter, nearby chemical release, etc.
Absolutely!
The airlines have Air Marshals which would be equivalent to an armed school security guard. But folks often forget...they have armed pilots too; I know at least one. Surely, somewhere, in almost every school, is a person/teacher who could qualify to carry a weapon in that school. Doesn't say much for our society but you deal with what you have!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Increased school security is a great idea. I've talked to my teacher girlfriend about it and she agrees. She has pepper spray but in the face of masked shooter that might have limited effect.
 

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Only thing I can think of, is firearms training class you have to attend at least once before purchasing a firearm. Kinda like a hunter safety course; as you have to have one before you can get your hunting license. So you get your fireaarms training certificate, and your done. Course to train on the 4 basic rules, various actions, proper clearing, proper storage, lecture on responsiblity of ownership, etc. Exception being made for any Active duty or miltary veterans - kind of a waste of time to train individuals already trained.

Idea being that I think most accidents (or incidents) with guns are probably originating from ignorance or untrained hands. Most legitimate gun owners aren't the problem, its the people who acquire guns by other means. Like borrrowing or stealing from a friend or relative. If said friend or relative had been better trained, on the care, handling, storage, and of their responsiblity as owners, their firearms may not have been involved.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I agree. A hunter education style course would be a great idea. Most states already require concealed carry courses which you must pay for but I am sure that NRA volunteers would be more than willing to man free gun owner education classes. Now Ducimus would live fire be part of this training course? Would it be retro active or would it be only going forward?
 

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The night of this shooting, Fox News had a retired FBI guy on there giving his opinion. He brought up a good point about how these shootings usually happen to soft targets, mostly schools. As long as lunatics feel like they can successfully get a high body count at a school, they'll keep going there. What they need is a deterrent, whether it be allowing teachers with CCW's to carry or a resource officer/deputy at every school. Criminals typically take the path of least resistance and if one of these spree killers thinks he might get gunned down before he can secure his name in the national news, he'll be less inclined. But when he KNOWS that no one will have a gun at a school, there's nothing to make him think twice.
 

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I agree. A hunter education style course would be a great idea. Most states already require concealed carry courses which you must pay for but I am sure that NRA volunteers would be more than willing to man free gun owner education classes. Now Ducimus would live fire be part of this training course? Would it be retro active or would it be only going forward?
The mother is at fault not our current set of gun laws. She broke the law when she left firearms where her mentally ill son could get to them. He broke countless laws when he killed his mother & stole the guns and murdered 26 people. The laws we have are not to blame for tragedies of this nature, not following them is.
 

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CAVman I see you are resisting change. I just presented those topics as a starter. I really want to know what other people think. Do you have any ideas that you think will work. If we aren't the ones who present the change then the change we are given I know we won't like.
No compromise...look where that has gotten us so far.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
mknopfler I see you too are resistant to change. But we as gun owners have a lot bad news coming down the pike if we refuse to be part of the solution and only stand in the way of making changes to protect our loved ones. I also believe that the existing laws are plenty for law abiding citizens to live by. But it is hard to look at the pictures of the children that were killed and say that everything is as it should be and that we are doing enough. You're exactly right. She didn't break the law as a gun owner. He broke the law as a murderer. But somewhere in between her owning guns and him killing people with guns I have to believe that there probably was more that could be done to prevent the end result. I'm not divesting him of blame or her of blame but obviously we need to do something to prevent this from happening one more time and if we continue to tout that the laws we have are enough then we are going to end up with no guns, and no respect. I think gun owners should shape future policy not the Brady campaign or the Obama administration.
 

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Maximus - The mother absolutely did break the law. Those firearms should not have been where a person with mental issues could get them, that is a violation of standing law.
 

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The night of this shooting, Fox News had a retired FBI guy on there giving his opinion. He brought up a good point about how these shootings usually happen to soft targets, mostly schools.
Well yeah. That's a no brainer, and why terrorist go after targets they do, or in the manner they do. It's all about the path of least resistance, gaining the maximum impact, and greatest chance of success.

As long as lunatics feel like they can successfully get a high body count at a school, they'll keep going there. What they need is a deterrent, whether it be allowing teachers with CCW's to carry or a resource officer/deputy at every school.
I think the form of a deterrent being an on campus officer has the greatest chance of political success, as it's already being done in some areas. The thing is, claiming that an answer to shootings is to allow for more CCW , to "these people" (IE, antigun/liberal), is absolutely preposterous in their mind. They see guns as a problem, and as they see it, trying to fix the problem with what they see as the source of the problem as lunacy. So you'll never get more CCW passed. Also the CCW idea has the added negative of making gun owners sound unreasonable, and crazy. So the anti gun folks will dig their heels in further, and just not listen to anything gun owners have to say.

But on campus police? THAT works. I know it works because thats what happened to my old high school in southern california. In the 4 years I attended, we had 7 driveby shootings One of which I was witness too. Stray round impacted a UPS truck in front of my car (I was 16 or 17 at the time), and sent one kid (who was the intended target), a one way ride on an airlift to a local hospital. Gang violence and drugs was a big issue back then. What ended up happening is EVERYONE lost their lockers. They took them all out, and eventually, the "rent a cops" were replaced with an onsite, local PD office, manned with real police officers. Guess what? Violence stopped.

One added bennifit to oncampus PD.. is not only would it lower violence and make shooting spree's less likely as they'd no longer a soft target, but it would also help added deterance to child abductions from school and the like.
 

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End the war on drugs. Violence really started to escalate from the start of it. Worthless and is mainly class and race warfare.

Figure out a way to get young folks into productive fields of work and study....perhaps bring shop classes back to high schools and expand technical trade schools. We need highly skilled labor....not more baristas. People with something to live for are less prone to do anything to risk it.

Bring religion back into the schools. Heck I'm not even a Christian and I'm for it. Certainly can't hurt to have a moral compass. I started going back to church lately with my daughter. The community is nice and I want her to have a Judeo-Christian moral code. One can live a good life if you live for others. Always seems you are well taken care of if you think of others before yourself. Funny isn't it how that works out?????

Children need an opportunity to enjoy their innocence. Seems to me kids are forced to grow up too quickly, perhaps much before they are ready. Internet, TV, and media need to be filtered out as much as possible and parents must keep their children constantly involved. That's what my mother told me she did to keep me out of trouble...sports, Civil Air Patrol, scouts, church youth groups, other youth groups....places where young folks can develop confidence, social, and leadership skills. I never had a second of inactivity really except for the summers when I went out everyday to play in the fields digging up bugs, catching frogs and lizards, riding horses, canoing, playing army, riding dirt bikes, whatever innocent fun a kid and a few buddies can have. Not getting high and trying to get laid at 12 years old. We didn't even know that stuff existed and weren't interested in girls until nature said so. We are placing our children in an environment that they are ill prepared for and are acting upset when things go wrong. Time to look in the mirror.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
No compromise...look where that has gotten us so far.
Like I said. If we refuse to be part of the solution then we deserve whatever is handed to us. Rather than fighting against everything on the table we should bring some of our own solutions to push out the bad ideas proposed by the gun control advocates. I don't want to make using, having, or getting guns harder for responsible citizens but I think everyone can agree that we do need to keep them out of the hands of mal-adjusted people, and criminals. Not only that but educate children about guns while also protecting them from harm whether by their own hands or by the hands of lunatics.
 

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So-called 'reasonable gun laws' have gone a long way to creating this mess. Laws restricting the types of small arms we may possess and carry and how we my carry them have not helped make us safer, quite the opposite. There are plenty of solid laws on the books against doing bad things with or without them, such as murder, rape and robbery.

With that said, personally, I'm not willing to get behind any further erosion of what is supposed to be a right.

Rich
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
ryoung I agree that it's supposed to be a right and I think I can assume that you and both believe that the words of our Constitution were mean to protect us against a tyrannical government and against crime. I'm not asking how can we limit our own rights I am asking how can we make people safer and preserve our own rights. The ultimate goal of any gun owner in this fight should be to keep and expand the rights of people who are responsible with guns and limit or eliminate access to people who are not responsible. I know when back ground checks were first proposed it was a huge to do and everyone hated it. Now its routine for people who buy lots of guns and it stops felons and at least a portion of the mentally ill from walking into any old gun shop and stocking up on weapons. It was a good idea that got a bad rap and is now routine. Would a gun owner education class be such a bad idea. Even if it didn't stop mass shooters maybe it would stop many negligent discharges which may or may not be fatal. If nothing else it would be a good faith move from gun owners to gun control activists. Not that we could expect them to return the favor.
 

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I don't want to make using, having, or getting guns harder for responsible citizens but I think everyone can agree that we do need to keep them out of the hands of mal-adjusted people, and criminals. Not only that but educate children about guns while also protecting them from harm whether by their own hands or by the hands of lunatics.
We should educate the politicians on how well existing laws already work. As an example, go to the FBI web site. You can download .pdf files showing the number of NICS background checks conducted from 11/30/98 to 11/30/12 (157,000,000 +) as well as the number of prohibited person records for that same time period (8,000,000 +).

If we can give our airline pilots hand guns, educators should have the legal option to carry concealed in schools and colleges. You can only do so much to prevent evil doers from acquiring firearms or weapons of opportunity, i.e., box cutter, ice pick, pipe wrench, knife, baseball bat, 550 para cord, shoe laces, screw driver, etc. Even a credit card can be made into a weapon, literally. Adults need to know how to react to physical attacks and should have the ability to use force in such situations.
 

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Replace 'all' politicians from top to bottom. They are the root of evil in this country, and many others. They are lending aid to our enemies and attacking the Constitution relentlessly.

80 million gun owners need to speak up for a change. And make their voices heard, loud and clear. Instead of always being on the offensive, it's time to show our teeth.

Have we learned nothing from history?

Gun owners rarely, if ever, initiate a debate. We are always defending ourselves against ''off the wall'' allegations. And those allegations have usually ended with more restrictions on our freedoms.

''No compromise...look where that has gotten us so far''. It won't work because no one stands behind it. We let others fight the fight. NRA , GOA or whoever. We let politicians and other groups kick our asses all over the place, because, most of us remain silent.

It's time to respond with enough faxes, e-mails, letters and phone calls, to cause grid lock in state capitals, and in Washington DC. If everyone of us would respond, it could easily be hundreds of millions of protests.

That would be the first step in the long road ahead.

Or, we can sit back and hope someone else has the balls, to do it for us.
 
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