[Don]

Hi. What is considered to be a pre-ban M1A? Thank you...Don

 

[Gus Fisher]

Hi. What is considered to be a pre-ban M1A? Thank you...Don

Basically it has a real G.I. FS with the bayonet lug still on it and a 20 round magazine.

HOWEVER, in California it has to be one that was registered that way with the CA DOJ.

 

[jbrooks]

For the M1A, "pre-ban" is any rifle produced BEFORE the AWB was signerd Sept. 13, 1994.

Somewhere around S/N 96,000 range. (per: Different)

The receivers on those are considered to be of the best quality produced by SAI.

My pre-ban SAI I bought in April 1994 (S/N 076,yyy) had a commercial op rod and came with a FH WITHOUT the bayo lug. SAI began neutering flash hiders prior to Sept 1994.

JWB

PS... the anti-porn filter on this site does not permit me to type "3 x's" in the S/N...

 

[arcticdog]

JWB, I agree with your thought process, but I read less than s/n 84,000 looking at Different's SA, Inc. born on forum reference sticky. Can you give me the reference for your s/n?

 

[jbrooks]

JWB, I agree with your thought process, but I read less than s/n 84,000 looking at Different's SA, Inc. born on forum reference sticky. Can you give me the reference for your s/n?

You are correct. My bad. According to Different's RHAD:

"Springfield Armory, Inc. M1A rifles with serial numbers under 084000 were reportedly made prior to the September 13, 1994 effective date of the U. S. Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act. "

"M1A receiver serial number 076539 was shipped to Springfield Armory, Inc. on January 07, 1994. Receiver serial number 088207 was shipped from Valley Ordnance to Geneseo, IL on December 30, 1994"

My confusion was regarding Valley Ordnance, which was the supplier of the receivers, and during which time the quality of the SAI receivers was at the peak. So there is a small number of Valley Ordnance receivers that cross over into the post-ban era. Those top-quality receivers were produced until 1996:

"The last complete finished M1A receiver made at Valley Ordnance Co., serial number 097726... on May 16, 1996"

JWB

 

[Don]

Hi. My SA M1A has a sn-026xxx. Pre-ban or Post-ban. No bayonet lug, and it has a muzzle brake. Thanks...Don

 

[Gus Fisher]

Folks, I was stationed in CA and working guns during and after the CA assault weapons ban went into effect. I sat in on a meeting for FFL holders with the CA DOJ to explain the regulations according to CA state law. Since the OP is from CA, the state law applies to him where it doesn't apply to folks from many other Commonwealths or States. Unless they changed CA state law since the mid 90's, the only legal semi auto M14's with bayonet lugs were the ones registered with the CA DOJ back in the 90's. I believe it is important to address this for folks living in CA.

 

[jbrooks]

The OP asked waht I interpreted to be a general question, so in general, a "pre-ban" SAI is one that was made before 13 Sep 1994. So the question is, when did the CA ban go into effect? If it was before 13 Sep 1994, then the S/N will be something under 084,000. If it went into effect concurrent with the Naional ban, then the S/N is still 084,000 as the cutoff. The fat that CA still has a ban means there is no "post ban" rifle for CA.

But the OP needs to go to the CADOJ website for the most current info for CA.

JWB

 

[FPeel]

Strangely, the California DOJ has a reputation in some circle for spewing as much misinformation as some gun shops.

Flash suppressors are illegal. Bayonet lugs are not. Of course, good luck finding a muzzle brake with a bayonet lug.

The "assault weapon ban" in California is really a mishmash of laws. The first was enacted in 1989; it banned specific models. The next was enacted in 1999; it prohibited specific features. There's a third law that in general prohibits magazines with a capacity greater than 10 rounds. For details see this link:

http://www.calguns.net/a_california_arak.htm

To determine if a rifle is legal in CA use this flowchart:

http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

Yeah, it's complex.

As for the OP's question, for firearms available for sale today California does not recognize whether it was manufactured pre or post ban (other states do). California also prohibits the sale or transfer of a registered assault weapon, even to family or heirs, unless it has been reconfigured to meet the current laws. Of course, once it is reconfigured it would no longer be an assault weapon, nor could it ever be re-registered as such. Therefore, for discussion's sake I'd agree with jbrooks and say the term defines rifles made prior to the Federal ban.

(If any of the above is wrong someone will surely correct it. But if they knew how long it took to double check the facts and put together they'll cut me some slack in the process!)

 

[Gus Fisher]

I see it went from bad to worse after I left CA.

 

[jbrooks]

I sold an M1 Carbine to a guy in CA last year. FFL-to-FFL took several weeks, and I could not ship any mags with it. I forget all the paperwork involved, but the FFL on the other end was a real PITA. Very uncooperative. AS I recall the person had to pay some sort of registration fee of $110.00 or so.

Way too much hassle IMO.

JWB

 

[Seventh Fleet]

For the M1A, "pre-ban" is any rifle produced BEFORE the AWB was signerd Sept. 13, 1994.

Somewhere around S/N 96,000 range. (per: Different)

The receivers on those are considered to be of the best quality produced by SAI.

My pre-ban SAI I bought in April 1994 (S/N 076,yyy) had a commercial op rod and came with a FH WITHOUT the bayo lug. SAI began neutering flash hiders prior to Sept 1994.

JWB

PS... the anti-porn filter on this site does not permit me to type "3 x's" in the S/N...

That's strange, my brand new preban M-1A serial number range 655XX has a USGI flash suppressor with lug, with a TRW op rod, bolt, trigger group and a Winchester USGI barrel. I purchased mine in March 1994 one month before you bought yours. I guess it was just the luck of the draw. I also just used three 's in my serial number without issue. Go figure...

7th

 

[slopoke]

I sold an M1 Carbine to a guy in CA last year. FFL-to-FFL took several weeks, and I could not ship any mags with it. I forget all the paperwork involved, but the FFL on the other end was a real PITA. Very uncooperative. AS I recall the person had to pay some sort of registration fee of $110.00 or so.

Way too much hassle IMO.

JWB

The fee of $110.00 was the transfer fee and DROS (Dealers Record of Sale) for a PPT (Private Party Transfer) where both parties were not present in the store. If you both met in a gun shop to transfer the firearm PPT the fee would have been $35.00.

 

[slopoke]

M1As in California can also be RAW (Registered Assault Weapons), those are the ones that still have a flash suppressor and if you had high cap magazines before the high cap ban you can use those in that firearm as well. Registered assault weapons here in California can't be transferred to anyone at all, including family members. To do that you would need to remove the evil features, cancel the assault weapon registration, now you would be able to transfer the firearm, but you would never be able to install a flash supressor again. The below is a quote from the California DOJ.


"If the defining characteristics establishing a firearm as an SB 23 assault weapon are removed, it is no longer an assault weapon and the registration may be canceled. However, once the registration is canceled, you can never replace the characteristic(s) that make it an assault weapon, or you will be in possession of an illegal weapon."

 

[jbrooks]

... "If the defining characteristics establishing a firearm as an SB 23 assault weapon are removed, it is no longer an assault weapon and the registration may be canceled. However, once the registration is canceled, you can never replace the characteristic(s) that make it an assault weapon, or you will be in possession of an illegal weapon."

That's the most bizzarre thing I've ever heard come from the pen of a bureaucrat...GI3

So "once a legal non-AW, always a legal non-AW..."

JWB

 

[jbrooks]

That's strange, my brand new preban M-1A serial number range 655XX has a USGI flash suppressor with lug, with a TRW op rod, bolt, trigger group and a Winchester USGI barrel. I purchased mine in March 1994 one month before you bought yours. I guess it was just the luck of the draw. I also just used three 's in my serial number without issue. Go figure...

7th

Yup... it is what it is. I guess the couple thousand difference in S/N was the time period that some commercial parts were transitioning in...

But my neutered FH is a USGI with the lug actually ground off.

JWB

 

[boomer1983]

G-damn sounds like something that would take a physicist to decipher. im so glad colorado let the ban sunset!

 

[win308]

I'm really beginning to appreciate WV....a state where even the Democrats own guns, mags........ and the ammo to go with them. (Yeah, I know we're hill-billies, but the rest of the country seems to be growing crazy).

 

[m14forme]

My M-1a was purchased new right before the 1994 ban in California. It had a flash supressor with a nuetered bayonet lug. I avoided having to register it as an "assault weapon" by changing that dangerous flash supressor for a SAI muzzle break.
Sorry, I had to edit this. The ban that effects my M-1a was in 2000, not 1994.
I sold a Colt Sporter Lightweight to a guy days before the 2000 ban for nearly $3,000.

 

[m14forme]

M1As in California can also be RAW (Registered Assault Weapons), those are the ones that still have a flash suppressor and if you had high cap magazines before the high cap ban you can use those in that firearm as well. Registered assault weapons here in California can't be transferred to anyone at all, including family members. To do that you would need to remove the evil features, cancel the assault weapon registration, now you would be able to transfer the firearm, but you would never be able to install a flash supressor again. The below is a quote from the California DOJ.


"If the defining characteristics establishing a firearm as an SB 23 assault weapon are removed, it is no longer an assault weapon and the registration may be canceled. However, once the registration is canceled, you can never replace the characteristic(s) that make it an assault weapon, or you will be in possession of an illegal weapon."

Registered assault weapons in California also cannot be taken across state lines, nor can they be willed. Its a felony to take them out of state. Basically, they have to die with you, here in California.