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For years I have heard people talk about their home defense shotguns and how an 18inch barrel with oo buck will fill a hallway when fired and kill anyone in said hallway. Tonight at the trap shooting range I decided to fire a couple of rounds. Through my Remington 87018" barrel I hit two birds. Then I decided to shoot a round with this 18"terra riot gun. I broke 18/25 at 18yds. If i can break that many birds with a riot gun shooting trap loads aren't these people talking about how much these guns spread a pattern full of sh*t
 

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It really depends on the shotgun and the choke, but unless you have a 50-75yd hallway, that shot pattern isn't going to open up much at all.

In all likelihood, any home defense shooting with a shotgun will leave a fist sized rat hole in your intended target.
 

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For years I have heard people talk about their home defense shotguns and how an 18inch barrel with oo buck will fill a hallway when fired and kill anyone in said hallway. Tonight at the trap shooting range I decided to fire a couple of rounds. Through my Remington 87018" barrel I hit two birds. Then I decided to shoot a round with this 18"terra riot gun. I broke 18/25 at 18yds. If i can break that many birds with a riot gun shooting trap loads aren't these people talking about how much these guns spread a pattern full of sh*t
Another case of uninformed. Many never pattern their shotguns (including so called bird hunters that go out once a year). National average is something like 1 box of 25 per ~3 doves? How many shotgunners test their shotguns like rifle/pistol shooters?

I shot trap for years and tightest choke was usually improved cylinder. I am lucky to remember to change my chokes from skeet to imp cyl when I go dove hunting, still hit my birds. How many of you believe a choke gauge measures the choke size on your barrel? (Hint: if gauge is marked cylinder, modified, full, etc, it may be wrong).
 

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Anyone using a shotgun for defense needs to test it. You should be able to have confidence in being able to safely take out a bad guy WITH A HOSTAGE with buckshot. The shotgun can do it, IF YOU LEARN HOW to use it.
 

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Testing includes POI/POA and spread. If you look at shotgun tests, they calculate % of pellets withing a target (usually 30") and POI for center of mass.

How about difference between a field or skeet gun to a trap gun. Field gun you usually can sight down the length of barrel and typically you cover target with the front bead. A trap gun when you look down the barrel, the barrel is slanted upwards (you actually looking against the barrel or rib). This is a built in rise as the trap target is rising so you can set the target above the bead and see your target. Shooter sets the gun up for his preferred amount of rise or lead (also applies to so called Pigeon Grade guns as live birds flew up).
 

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Anyone using a shotgun for defense needs to test it. You should be able to have confidence in being able to safely take out a bad guy WITH A HOSTAGE with buckshot. The shotgun can do it, IF YOU LEARN HOW to use it.
This is true. I took a defensive shotgun class once and we practiced this very scenario. I have since sent my barrel to Vang Comp for their modifications and now it shoots a much tighter group with buckshot. The old story about "pointing" a shotgun rather than aiming it is (and probably always was) hogwash.

Tim
 

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Shot shells do not expand in the length of the average room of a house. Most shot will be within a fist size plus chances are the wad will penetrate the target also. So you do not need 00 buck for home defense. Good ole number 6 will do wonders to the human torso
 

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This is true. I took a defensive shotgun class once and we practiced this very scenario. I have since sent my barrel to Vang Comp for their modifications and now it shoots a much tighter group with buckshot. The old story about "pointing" a shotgun rather than aiming it is (and probably always was) hogwash.

Tim
pointing a shotgun isnt hogwash, but it does have to be taken in context. shooting slugs at a deer at 75yds, you had better be aiming. shooting at birds or clay pigeons, you point the gun, if you aim it your missing. pointing a shotgun doesnt mean just having the end of the barrel facing somewhere in the general vicinity of where you want to hit.
 

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pointing a shotgun isnt hogwash, but it does have to be taken in context. shooting slugs at a deer at 75yds, you had better be aiming. shooting at birds or clay pigeons, you point the gun, if you aim it your missing. pointing a shotgun doesnt mean just having the end of the barrel facing somewhere in the general vicinity of where you want to hit.
May be just the use of words but you are still aiming a shotgun, just providing proper lead for trajectory and a moving target. Same as if the deer was walking, provide some lead whether shotgun or rifle.
 

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I once got tired of using my Berretta AL3 for sporting clays and used my 870 riot gun w a 20" cyl bore "choke", it worked great, Little rougher on the shoulder after 100rds but it's damn sure capable of winning if I could do my part. For home defense I use #4 buck hi brass it makes about a 4" hole at 20/25 ft with enough penetration for my taste.
 

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I hate Trap. I can print 10 rounds under 20 inches at 1000 yds but can't hit more than a few clays. Stupid shotguns are always broke I swear!
 

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Actually I liked trap more than skeet. A trap machine is always rotating in a horizontal arc and you never know which direction the target is going. A lot of instinctive point/aim. Skeet machines are calibrated for clay to trvel a fixed path and the shooters moves to 8 stations. You know where the calibration point is so you can anticipate the path of the clay every time plus you call when the target is released. To me it was mostly mental as you knew path and time. You just needed to make the gun move and keep proper lead. I always scored lower in skeet.
 

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Reading this thread reminds me of the kid that shows up and wins a trap competition, against the local pro's with fancy equipment, using his old hand-me-down Stevens 12ga. single shot, 32 inch barrel... because he doesn't know any better.

I used to shoot trap on occasion, mostly to stay in practice during the off-season and then to warm-up before bird and waterfowl season. My most memorable day was at a public trap range where I'd brought a friend that I was introducing to shotgunning. Nearing the end of the day, so still had good light. Came to the line with my 60's Belgium A-5 'Light Twelve,' with a vent ribbed 28 in. barrel and modified choke, that I used for ducks. Two (2) stations to my left, a guy comes to the line with a beautiful top dollar single barrel trap gun, chiseled receiver/the works, the belt and bags for his rounds and hulls- the whole outfit. You could tell by his stance and follow-through, it wasn't his first barbecue. Long story short, he and I banged it out, virtually target for target during the round, and it was a fast round with quick target calls. At the final tally he and I were top scorers with his round a 24 for 25 and mine a 23 for 25. When picking-up our cards, the scorer told the two of us it had been the best round he's scored that day and the other shooter and I exchanged those quiet glaces and nods exchanged by close competitors.

Shooting with and against shooters at the top of their game, will also increase your level of concentration and make you a better shooter.

I loved that Browning A-5. Then, one day, I gave that shotgun to my son.

THE END
 

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I believe the spread of shot is normally given at 1" per 1 yard. 30 yards would yield spread of 30". It is also said that the shot is in a "string" of some 12' or so and for skeet or fast crossing shots you may well hit your target with the very front of the string of shot or catch it near the end of the string. Suppose to think of it as spraying stream of water with water hose and for skeet it is important that you do not stop your swing and be ahead of the target. I shoot a lot of trap and have for number of years and do OK but skeet is a mystery for me compared to trap. All skeet birds are supposed to fly at the same direction/angle each time and the distance is always the same from bird to bird. Trap is shot from 16 yard line and back to the 27 yard line and direction of the bird is unknown from shot to shot. Trap is a very old sport derived from European royalty having birds released from a "trap" (by their servant) so Lord So and So could use his fowling piece/shotgun. Skeet is pure American sport developed in the mid 20's(think in '26.) Over the years have accumulated some vey nice shotguns for both Trap and Skeet, but my favorite is Winchester Model 12 Trap that has had countless rounds through it and has never failed even though shot on a regular basis since the mid 50's. Some of the Trap and Skeet shooters at the local club are shooting guns that cost as much as a car or more and seem to have some sort of problem to deal with on a fairly regular basis. Will say though those guns are works of art(I am just jealous.)
 

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Some guys shoot trap as a hobby and buy a high end gun because they can afford it. All guns break but what you not considereing is how many rounds a trap gun sees. One year i had 8000 registered targets and just north of 40k targets total that year. And yes while you may beat the areas top guy in one round a tournement is 200 targets. On a week night at a local club a top shooter also may be there to relax and smash primers. I know for a fact some young guys with field guns can shoot them well. However run 100k thru that stevens and see whats left. You dont need a fancy trap gun to do well. Ive wore out a few brownings before i got my kgun. Remember its the indian not the arrow
 

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I believe the spread of shot is normally given at 1" per 1 yard. 30 yards would yield spread of 30". It is also said that the shot is in a "string" of some 12' or so and for skeet or fast crossing shots you may well hit your target with the very front of the string of shot or catch it near the end of the string. Suppose to think of it as spraying stream of water with water hose and for skeet it is important that you do not stop your swing and be ahead of the target. I shoot a lot of trap and have for number of years and do OK but skeet is a mystery for me compared to trap. All skeet birds are supposed to fly at the same direction/angle each time and the distance is always the same from bird to bird. Trap is shot from 16 yard line and back to the 27 yard line and direction of the bird is unknown from shot to shot. Trap is a very old sport derived from European royalty having birds released from a "trap" (by their servant) so Lord So and So could use his fowling piece/shotgun. Skeet is pure American sport developed in the mid 20's(think in '26.) Over the years have accumulated some vey nice shotguns for both Trap and Skeet, but my favorite is Winchester Model 12 Trap that has had countless rounds through it and has never failed even though shot on a regular basis since the mid 50's. Some of the Trap and Skeet shooters at the local club are shooting guns that cost as much as a car or more and seem to have some sort of problem to deal with on a fairly regular basis. Will say though those guns are works of art(I am just jealous.)
Exactly my thoughts on skeet vs trap (post #15). Stayed around 90% scoring on trap and lucky to keep ~75% in skeet.
 

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Some guys shoot trap as a hobby and buy a high end gun because they can afford it. All guns break but what you not considereing is how many rounds a trap gun sees. One year i had 8000 registered targets and just north of 40k targets total that year. And yes while you may beat the areas top guy in one round a tournement is 200 targets. On a week night at a local club a top shooter also may be there to relax and smash primers. I know for a fact some young guys with field guns can shoot them well. However run 100k thru that stevens and see whats left. You dont need a fancy trap gun to do well. Ive wore out a few brownings before i got my kgun. Remember its the indian not the arrow
I am also an ATA Trap Shooter. I do not register as many targets now as I did, but still mange to get in 5000 to 7000 targets per year and try to go to the Grand for preliminary week each year.
You are exactly correct - often times some of my friends who are excellent wing shots will go to the club with me and as they watch a round being shot they talk about how easy it looks. When they shoot a round they may break 22-23 and sometimes maybe 25/25. Then you say, lets get another box - there score generally goes down in the second box - if you can get them to shoot the third box it goes down even farther. Then when you explain that a registered singles event is either 100 or 200 targets they cant believe it. Then explain that on top of that, our little monthly shoot will either be 300 targets (100 singles, 100 handicap and 50 pair doubles) or 400 targets (200 singles, 100 handicap and 50 pair doubles) and they can't believe it........

The guns we shoot trap with are designed for easy rebuilds as after 25000, 50,000 or so targets they may need tightening up a little. Some of the guns are designed for quick repair on the range - like Perazzi has a quickly removable trigger because the leaf trigger springs are known for their crispness - and for breaking. However when they break - 2 minutes later it is replaced. It is not unusual for the P guns and K guns to get close to a million rounds through them in their life time. Some of the service teams have guns with over a million through them - a little maintenance and little rebuild and they are good to go.
Skeet and trap are totally separate games. I like trap as we get to shoot a lot of shells rather quickly. A five man trap squad in good sink can shoot a 25 target sub-event is 10 to 15 minutes, a skeet squad may require 35 to 45 to do that. Also, in trap you know a range of where the target will be but you never know exactly where it is going. In skeet you know exactly where the target will be. I have often heard it said that trap is easier to learn and harder to master and skeet is hard to learn but easier to master. They are both great sports - just different.

In my time shooting trap I have learned more about chokes than I ever did before. A shotgun choke, regardless of constriction will throw about a 30 inch circle...... it is the 20 inch inner core that separates them. For skeet you want a large uniform pattern, for trap you want one with a hotter core.

The above posters are exactly correct - regardless of choke constriction, in a hall-way or house, the pattern will be from 2 to 4 inches ..... for longer distances a cylinder bore will open up tremendously and the pattern will have holes in it. For a defense gun, you are not generally going to be shooting doves or etc. with it..... Therefore, when it comes to chokes in my shot guns, the trap shooter in me leans toward - tighter is better.
 
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