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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
How's it going guys and gals. I'm looking to add to my collection of weapons with an M14. I've always loved the platform, and now is the right time for me to start building one. What I have in mind is Walter Mitty type DMR build (Yes, I've been over Gus Fisher's thread) that is capable of 8"-10" groups at 800m. When I was in Afghanistan, my M14EBR-RI was capable of consistent gold dollar coin sized 5 round groupings with M118LR at 100m, prone supported. I'm looking for equal or better performance.

I am aware of how much money this can cost, but building the rifle I want is infinitely worth it to me. This is what I have so far

-McMillian M3A stock w/ saddle adjustable cheek rest
-LRB Rear lugged 22" barreled action (can I get this chrome lined?) with Surefire FH762KM14 flash hider (going to purchase and mount suppressor eventually)
-Vltor CASV-14 rail system
-SEI Warfighter gas system
-SEI Extended boltstop
-SEI Tritium Close combat sight
-SEI Trigger job
-TRW USGI Parts kit
-Atlas bipod
-Still trying to figure out what glass I want to put on it

That's what I have so far, tell me what you think. I welcome all opinions, but do ask that if you disagree with a choice, you provide facts on why and also inform me of something else that could replace what you disagree with, and why it's better. If you have any experience with what's listed here, please do tell. This is going to be my bugout gun in addition to my DD Mk18 and my Glock 19. Being in the Pacific Northwest, the M14 is the perfect step up to use from range in either the city and forests of Western WA or the plains and hills of Eastern WA. One thing that has been issue/topic for debate for these types of guns is weight. That is something I'm not worried about at all seeing as when I was deployed I carried an M14EBR-RI (11.25lbs) and an M4 (7.5lbs) and combat loads for both. I look forward to the knowledge here, thanks for stopping by.
 

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What distances would you like to shoot and what are your accuracy expectations? I take it accuracy inside 800yds is practical?

I'd go with a shorter barrel, personally. Either one of the Bula Forge 19.25" barrels or a Wolfe 18.5" modified standard weight barrels. I'm toying around with a 19.25" right now. Accuracy at 200yds was promising. I personally wouldn't go heavier than a medium weight. Also, look into getting a chrome-moly barrel or a stainless barrel and breaking in the rifle. Then send your parts out for salt-bath-nitride treatment (AKA-Melonite/Tenifer).

I personally think the rear-lug is non-ideal as it limits your stock options in a Walter Mitty rifle. The rear lug is more for bedding longevity anyways. Do you want the rifle permanently scoped? A receiver with a scope rail already made into the receiver will be ideal

That would give you some wicked barrel longevity and its better than chrome-plating. Feel free to PM me to talk more about it.

Tony.
 

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-McMillian M3A stock w/ saddle adjustable cheek rest
-LRB Rear lugged 22" barreled action (can I get this chrome lined?) with Surefire FH762KM14 flash hider (going to purchase and mount suppressor eventually)
-Vltor CASV-14 rail system
-SEI Warfighter gas system
-SEI Extended boltstop
-SEI Tritium Close combat sight
-SEI Trigger job
-TRW USGI Parts kit
-Atlas bipod
-Still trying to figure out what glass I want to put on it

One thing that has been issue/topic for debate for these types of guns is weight. That is something I'm not worried about at all seeing as when I was deployed I carried an M14EBR-RI (11.25lbs) and an M4 (7.5lbs) and combat loads for both. I look forward to the knowledge here, thanks for stopping by.
You've currently built up close to a 20 pound rifle, just something to think about.

I'd lose the CASV-14 and get a standard LRB M25 receiver with a 20 MOA extended rail. This is a much better scope mount platform and a rear lug isn't necessarily going to add much considering today's bedding compounds. It also gives you more flexibility in the future. I also agree with the 18.5" barrel, plenty of distance and a more compact package.

Get a NOS complete USGI gas system and have it melonite treated. I've had the SEI system and found it lacking in the quality area.

I also agree the close combat front sight is fat, I'd recommend the tritium bar front sight which is closer to a standard width front sight while still having the tritium sight. In the end I ditched tritium completely and went with an XS USN hooded front sight.

You can get a better trigger job elsewhere for less money then have it melonite treated. I have their Max Pak trigger job, eventually I want to get it redone.

Each persons idea of a Walter Mitty rifle is different, however the underlying premise is a do all rifle that isn't finicky or maintenance intensive.

As for my earlier weight comment, it's from experience:



Did you ever sling both rifles on the same shoulder the same way or carry both at the same time the same way? 18 pounds between two rifles carried/slung different ways does not equal one 18 pound rifle carried one way. My current setup is 15.5 pounds and I'm looking at changing barrels to get it under 15 pounds.

All in all you have some good ideas and sounds like a solid build.
 

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Good call on the M25 receiver. Best way to mount a scope on a M14 bar none.

Also a good call on the nitride. It is my favorite finish in both looks and durability.
 

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For comparison, here are three actions. The middle one is all nitrided, except the receiver, rear sight, bolt stop and clip guide. All the parts match in color

http://m14forum.com/m14/187508-jon-wolfe-salt-bath-nitrided-parts-arrived.html



The top 2 actions have Jon Wolfe stainless steel modified medium weight barrels (I call them 3/4 heavy). The middle action was nitrided and the stainless 5R barrel came out a dull glossy black. I love it!

I was going to nitride the top action, but it's shooting so well, I'm not going to touch it. The top action is an M25 receiver, the bottom actions are built on standard receivers. The bottom action has a different barrel now (19.25" Bula) and now resides in a Blackfeather stock.

Tony.
 

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Here's another setup I had for a little bit, JAE G2:



Also nearly 20 pounds.

I went from this to this and lost nearly 5 pounds, part of which was the optics package:



I know the EBR isn't for everyone, just showing there are significant changes stock to stock. Go grab a 20 pound weight, hook it to a sling and go hike around in just a T-shirt and jeans for an hour or so. I'm not saying you can't do it, just trying to bring the reality closer to home.
 

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Don't bother with a chrome lined barrel if you want the most accuracy.

"Warfighter gas system" I know nothing about, but you're better off with a unitized GI system, in my opinion.

I'm not a fan of the extended bolt stop. It

Look at SWFA fixed 10x scope


Welcome from Arkansas, sounds like your on your way to something good!
 

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Discussion Starter #12
You've currently built up close to a 20 pound rifle, just something to think about.

I'd lose the CASV-14 and get a standard LRB M25 receiver with a 20 MOA extended rail. This is a much better scope mount platform and a rear lug isn't necessarily going to add much considering today's bedding compounds. It also gives you more flexibility in the future. I also agree with the 18.5" barrel, plenty of distance and a more compact package.

Get a NOS complete USGI gas system and have it melonite treated. I've had the SEI system and found it lacking in the quality area.

I also agree the close combat front sight is fat, I'd recommend the tritium bar front sight which is closer to a standard width front sight while still having the tritium sight. In the end I ditched tritium completely and went with an XS USN hooded front sight.

You can get a better trigger job elsewhere for less money then have it melonite treated. I have their Max Pak trigger job, eventually I want to get it redone.

Each persons idea of a Walter Mitty rifle is different, however the underlying premise is a do all rifle that isn't finicky or maintenance intensive.

As for my earlier weight comment, it's from experience:



Did you ever sling both rifles on the same shoulder the same way or carry both at the same time the same way? 18 pounds between two rifles carried/slung different ways does not equal one 18 pound rifle carried one way. My current setup is 15.5 pounds and I'm looking at changing barrels to get it under 15 pounds.

All in all you have some good ideas and sounds like a solid build.
I was also looking at the LRB M25 as well. The reason i was thinking about the rear lug is because it claims to unitize the action, which from some of the things ive read on here, helps with accuracy. How does not having a rear lug provide future flexibility? As for the sight, I do prefer the bar. Anyone you suggest for a trigger job/melonite treating? As for the weight, while I carried both at the same time, one was always slung while the other was ready. Before I was an SDM though, I was a machine gunner and an M240B is almost a 30lb weapon unloaded. Weight is not an issue for me, but you have given me stuff to think about. Thank you
 

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Discussion Starter #13
What distances would you like to shoot and what are your accuracy expectations? I take it accuracy inside 800yds is practical?

I'd go with a shorter barrel, personally. Either one of the Bula Forge 19.25" barrels or a Wolfe 18.5" modified standard weight barrels. I'm toying around with a 19.25" right now. Accuracy at 200yds was promising. I personally wouldn't go heavier than a medium weight. Also, look into getting a chrome-moly barrel or a stainless barrel and breaking in the rifle. Then send your parts out for salt-bath-nitride treatment (AKA-Melonite/Tenifer).

I personally think the rear-lug is non-ideal as it limits your stock options in a Walter Mitty rifle. The rear lug is more for bedding longevity anyways. Do you want the rifle permanently scoped? A receiver with a scope rail already made into the receiver will be ideal

That would give you some wicked barrel longevity and its better than chrome-plating. Feel free to PM me to talk more about it.

Tony.
I'd be shooting up to around 800m and my accuracy expectations are about 1moa. What was your accuracy like? Is there any velocity loss that hampers long range flight with the removal of 4 inches of barrel space? Once this rifle went into the M3A, it wouldn't be coming out and yes i plan to have it permanently scoped. And you're saying the melonite would give better longevity than the chrome plating? Thanks for your thoughts.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Well thanks everybody who has responded so far, y'all have definitely given me some things to think about. So far that includes ditching the CASV14 full top rail in favor of the LRB M25 receiver with the rail built in, dropping from 22" to 18.5" barrel length, and getting the barrel, action and trigger group melonite treated instead of chrome plated.

If i dropped the CASV14 rail in favor of the LRB M25 receiver, I would lost the ability to easily mount rail sections at the 3 and 9 o clock position. Is this something that can be easily rectified, especially with the M3A stock? My preferences include having small rail sections at the 3, 6, and 9 o clock to mount my bipod and PEQ/15.

As far as glass, I've really interested in the Vortex Viper PST 4-16x50 FFP w/ the EBR-1 MOA Reticule. Does anybody have experience with this optic? Also, what are in your opinion the best scope rings or mounts (preferably cantilever)?

Again, thanks for the knowledge.
 

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Well thanks everybody who has responded so far, y'all have definitely given me some things to think about. So far that includes ditching the CASV14 full top rail in favor of the LRB M25 receiver with the rail built in, dropping from 22" to 18.5" barrel length, and getting the barrel, action and trigger group melonite treated instead of chrome plated.

If i dropped the CASV14 rail in favor of the LRB M25 receiver, I would lost the ability to easily mount rail sections at the 3 and 9 o clock position. Is this something that can be easily rectified, especially with the M3A stock? My preferences include having small rail sections at the 3, 6, and 9 o clock to mount my bipod and PEQ/15.

As far as glass, I've really interested in the Vortex Viper PST 4-16x50 FFP w/ the EBR-1 MOA Reticule. Does anybody have experience with this optic? Also, what are in your opinion the best scope rings or mounts (preferably cantilever)?

Again, thanks for the knowledge.
For a receiver, I recommend the LRB M25 or the Bula Defense XM21. They both have build-in scope rails.

A rear-lug limits you to only McMillan or JAE stocks. With no-lug, you can use GI stocks, AG composites stocks, SAGE or M14.CA Blackfeather. The SAGE and Blackfeather stocks will accept medium weight barrels and lighter, but SAGE makes another version that will work with a full heavy barrel.

The salt-bath-nitride (SBN) treatment will surface-harden any steel part you want treated and it adds superior corrosion resistance. Take a stainless steel barrel and have it SBN'd and you have a tough barrel that will resist corrosion and will take longer to wear out. You can do it to any part of the rifle, so it's not just limited to the barrel. You should break-in the barrel first, before you SBN it.

SBN is a surface treatment; not a plating, so there's nothing to flake off. The barrel will still wear naturally though.

I expect my SBN'd Wolfe 5R barrel to hold match-grade accuracy out to at least 8,000 rounds. Normally, match-grade accuracy drops off around 5,000. It should hold decent accuracy out to about 12,000+ rounds but I'll let you know in 10 years, when I shoot that much. Maybe I should send it to Nez to try and wear it out.

Tony.
 

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Contact McMillan and mention you want 3, 6, and 9 o'clock rails, I'm sure they can do it for you since they offer rails as accessories.

18.5" will get you out to 800 yards no problem. I could be wrong since it's been a while, but I think it's a loss of about 25 fps for each inch, so a 100 fps loss total. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

As for future flexibility with a standard receiver, in the unlikely event something bad happens to your McMillan (we are talking about a Walter Mitty setup), you would be able to at least swap stocks to keep you up and running. You say once it goes into the McMillan it's not coming out, how about yearly tear down and maintenance? That's part of a Walter Mitty rifle, the ability to tear down and maintain it instead of treating it like a match rifle. Just food for thought.

As for mounting the scope, go with rings, you'll get the scope lower with rings than you ever will with a mount. Badger Ordnance rings would be a good place to start looking. With a 20 MOA extended rail you'll probably be in the 1" height region, possibly lower depending on the eyepiece and objective.

If you plan to have it permanently scoped why not just get standard sights for backup? Would make a bit more sense, but that's me.
 

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Nitride

I'm somewhat familiar with nitrating parts. When they nitride the barreled action, am I supposed to disassemble everything (which ain't gonna happen), or do they disassemble the barreled action? I paid Roland Beaver too much for his talent in accurizing M1As to have someone pull apart his careful work then reassemble it after the Nitride bath.
 

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I'm somewhat familiar with nitrating parts. When they nitride the barreled action, am I supposed to disassemble everything (which ain't gonna happen), or do they disassemble the barreled action? I paid Roland Beaver too much for his talent in accurizing M1As to have someone pull apart his careful work then reassemble it after the Nitride bath.
I'd trust Jon Wolfe to put it back just as good. He's that good.

Tony.
 

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Nitriding

I'd trust Jon Wolfe to put it back just as good. He's that good.

Tony.
Tony,

Thanks for the reply to my question.

1) Does John disassemble the barreled action?

2) What's the turn around time?

3) What's it cost?

4) How do I get in touch with John?

Thanks again,

Ralph J.
 
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