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It can only be used for tracking and nothing else. Who's data base will this go into? It doesn't make any sense; how can you tell who bought what ammo by pulling a bullet out of a dead body by credit card records? What difference does it make? If I get it local and pay cash, this is all useless. These people are acting like every transaction is nefarious. Criminals don't buy guns and ammo with debit cards online. It's like these idiot LE agencies who want to go back and track where the gun came from after a mass shooting. What difference does it make? What's done is done; that will accomplish nothing, except to villify the gun dealer and manufacturer further when they had nothing to do with it. What about the people who already have plenty of guns and ammunition? What will tracking future purposes do in that respect? Between this and UPS/FedEx not wanting to deliver guns/parts/ammo, this doesn't bode well for 2A folks. If they can't get gun control passed at the government level, they are going to find another way. Sickening. Same goes for background checks. The last 3 or 4 mass shooters passed the background check and had no criminal history. That worked out well..........We truly are a nation of blithering idiots...........And the half wit retard pedophile is our king......
 

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I'm trying to wrap my head around this.

The code was created by the standards organization.
Visa says that they will use it.

So it would identify purchases at gun stores. But then they would have to work w stores to classify SKUs as firearms and ammo.
They could attempt to force the stores to comply but not sure how that would work.

If stores do this... then you could make a case that this would be a 4th amendment violation because this action was being done at the behest of the government. 'Voluntarily' of course since Congress couldn't pass a law to require this... I think you could make a 2A argument because it would stifle some to exercise their rights to purchase a firearm... but you could always use cash. Now if the use of cash causes other reporting... then it would strengthen the argument on 4th A terms.

Like if you withdraw over a couple hundred dollars in cash... you get flagged. Or if you use Visa... you're flagged. So you can't make a purchase.

Again I think Congress could make a law barring the use of this to spy on Americans... but until you have enough votes to override Biden's veto or replace him... who knows...

The devil is in the details.
 

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I'm trying to wrap my head around this.

The code was created by the standards organization.
Visa says that they will use it.

So it would identify purchases at gun stores. But then they would have to work w stores to classify SKUs as firearms and ammo.
They could attempt to force the stores to comply but not sure how that would work.

If stores do this... then you could make a case that this would be a 4th amendment violation because this action was being done at the behest of the government. 'Voluntarily' of course since Congress couldn't pass a law to require this... I think you could make a 2A argument because it would stifle some to exercise their rights to purchase a firearm... but you could always use cash. Now if the use of cash causes other reporting... then it would strengthen the argument on 4th A terms.

Like if you withdraw over a couple hundred dollars in cash... you get flagged. Or if you use Visa... you're flagged. So you can't make a purchase.

Again I think Congress could make a law barring the use of this to spy on Americans... but until you have enough votes to override Biden's veto or replace him... who knows...

The devil is in the details.
Just wait for digital dollars when they do away with cash...........
 

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Yet another example of totalitarianism creating another erosion of individual liberty. Here, powerful people with a specific political agenda have convinced big businesses (which are beholding to favorable government support) to do what the government itself is prohibited by law from doing - create a searchable data-base of lawful, private firearms and firearms related item (aka "ammo") purchases.

There is no amount of very limited social good that can come from this, but it has the potential to do great harm to ordinary, law-abiding citizens. This harm can come not only from the government exceeding its legal authority in surveilling lawful commerce, lawful behavior or lawful activities of citizens, but also (and likely even more immediately harmful) from abusive uses of this information by entities who are not constrained by law or who are acting, themselves, illegally.

Consider how often private business information contained in data-bases held by both large and small corporations is compromised and then used in illegal scams and identity theft crimes. Here we have an entirely new class of personal information that in the hands of criminals creates even more vulnerabilities for citizens. The vast majority of these data-theft crimes go unpunished, and now perhaps criminals selling and buying stolen personal data will have lists of potential victims from which to steal firearms. Far from limiting criminal access to firearms, this has the very likely potential to provide criminals with lists of citizens to target for firearms thefts (introducing new untraceable firearms into the hands of criminals) or providing criminals with lists of potential victims to avoid because they are known to be armed (don't rob this house, rob the place next door).

Another potential harm might be the way that patterns of personal purchases are reported and used by companies to establish credit histories or make determinations on employment or loans. Imagine that decision makers who are approving personal loans or hiring new employees decide that your pattern of firearms and firearms related items makes you a bad (or politically unacceptable) credit risk or that you're someone who doesn't "fit" within their company's "culture." "Hmmmm, too bad your credit score isn't better, but we count firearms purchases as a negative credit score input." "Sorry, no loan or job for you. You buy too many guns and too much ammo for us to want to do business with you or have you on our corporate team."

Imagine, if you will, that some anti-2A employee of one of these credit card companies wants to make public the names and addresses of people who live in some city or state so that their homes or business can be targeted for protests? The information is stolen and passed onto groups with agendas and intentions to use public humiliation to intimidate gun owners and to discourage others who might be considering owning firearms.

None of this even touches upon the almost certain unforeseen and unexpected consequences. Who knows what new and creative ways that those with anti-2A political agendas or others with criminal intent might come up with to exploit this data.
 

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Yet another example of totalitarianism creating another erosion of individual liberty. Here, powerful people with a specific political agenda have convinced big businesses (which are beholding to favorable government support) to do what the government itself is prohibited by law from doing - create a searchable data-base of lawful, private firearms and firearms related item (aka "ammo") purchases.

There is no amount of very limited social good that can come from this, but it has the potential to do great harm to ordinary, law-abiding citizens. This harm can come not only from the government exceeding its legal authority in surveilling lawful commerce, lawful behavior or lawful activities of citizens, but also (and likely even more immediately harmful) from abusive uses of this information by entities who are not constrained by law or who are acting, themselves, illegally.

Consider how often private business information contained in data-bases held by both large and small corporations is compromised and then used in illegal scams and identity theft crimes. Here we have an entirely new class of personal information that in the hands of criminals creates even more vulnerabilities for citizens. The vast majority of these data-theft crimes go unpunished, and now perhaps criminals selling and buying stolen personal data will have lists of potential victims from which to steal firearms. Far from limiting criminal access to firearms, this has the very likely potential to provide criminals with lists of citizens to target for firearms thefts (introducing new untraceable firearms into the hands of criminals) or providing criminals with lists of potential victims to avoid because they are known to be armed (don't rob this house, rob the place next door).

Another potential harm might be the way that patterns of personal purchases are reported and used by companies to establish credit histories or make determinations on employment or loans. Imagine that decision makers who are approving personal loans or hiring new employees decide that your pattern of firearms and firearms related items makes you a bad (or politically unacceptable) credit risk or that you're someone who doesn't "fit" within their company's "culture." "Hmmmm, too bad your credit score isn't better, but we count firearms purchases as a negative credit score input." "Sorry, no loan or job for you. You buy too many guns and too much ammo for us to want to do business with you or have you on our corporate team."

Imagine, if you will, that some anti-2A employee of one of these credit card companies wants to make public the names and addresses of people who live in some city or state so that their homes or business can be targeted for protests? The information is stolen and passed onto groups with agendas and intentions to use public humiliation to intimidate gun owners and to discourage others who might be considering owning firearms.

None of this even touches upon the almost certain unforeseen and unexpected consequences. Who knows what new and creative ways that those with anti-2A political agendas or others with criminal intent might come up with to exploit this data.
Amen and right on the money........
 

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Might visa learn they have a pretty good demographic that uses their bank? Might need to revisit tracking. Not so much for analyzing sales but so there’s not a hackable, subpoenaable database out there.
 

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What a crock! Seems like a dog a pony show or kabuki dance. Stores are categorized into merchant codes for examp, grocery stores have a code, sporting goods stores have a code. If someone buys fishing gear at sporting goods store that happens to sell firearms, the merchant code doesn’t detail the transaction.
 

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This what criminals in power do.
 

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Just wait for digital dollars when they do away with cash...........
You nailed the elephant in the room. These codes do nothing except identify where you do business. Digital dollars on the other hand provide a much more transactional detail. If people are smart, they need to be thinking about ways to circumvent such evil plots. For example, think about tangibles that a person can trade i.e. silver, gold, food, and yes even ammo. Even Bitcoin or other private cryptocurrency may be an option.

At the moment anyone can get a cash advance from a credit card and then purchase with cash, but a government issued e-cash option will be the ultimate control. Americans should push back against that with everything they can. Our government is exploring options for this so you better be prepared. The ultimate ability to control the population is about to become very real! With a flip of a switch, uncle Biden will be able to turn on or off every privilege you have until compliance is observed.

It's coming in our lifetime.
 
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