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This brings to mind another question:
When I was a kid, every other kid I knew (well, almost) their dads had pistols, Carbines, Garands, 03s, and not to mention German and Japanese weapons they brought home from WWII.
When did they change all that bring backs?
When they started issuing everyone a machine gun.

When returning from WWII and Korea, duffle bags weren't inspected like they are today or during Vietnam. In fact, I went back and forth to Germany, in uniform on a civilian aircraft, with a folding stock M1 carbine and a Beretta pistol in my duffel bag. No one on either end cared. I just showed my military ID and travel orders and they waved me right through Customs.

During WWII and Korea, lots of pistols and rifles were listed as lost or battle damaged, when they actually ended up in duffel bags. It was up to local unit commanders to decide who got away with what.
 

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So Navy ships had armories that large and able to equip that many Marines?
Or, did the Marines bring the needed weapons with them and store them in a secured area until needed?
The amphibious ships carried up to 2,200 Marines. There were ammo and weapons holds. There were also jeeps and other support vehicles carried in holds.

Da Nang 1965.
Cloud Water Sky Boat Vehicle


Dong Ha 1966 - the pictures weren't developed until 1967 when I got home.
Water Sky Vehicle Gas Marines
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
I don't know when all that changed (or if it actually did). I deployed during OIF (not a combat vet) but I think i can speak to the mindset of a modern serviceman. "It ain't worth it."
I knew some guys who brought back items from Vietnam, SKSs mostly.
Don't know if it was legal or they were lying and had bought them somewhere stateside to impress chicks . . . ???
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
I can't imagine that dry firing has any effect at all on barrel life. Shooting a cleaning rod section with a blank, yes. Dry firing, no.
I'm sorry! And I've got a Masters in English!
Let me try this again . . .

I was told by a friend of mine around here that was drafted and used the M14 his whole two years that they dry fired all the time and it does not hurt the rifle. Is this not true?

Also, as for barrel life . . how many rounds are expected before it is shot out and becomes scrap metal?
 

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When they started issuing everyone a machine gun.

When returning from WWII and Korea, duffle bags weren't inspected like they are today or during Vietnam. In fact, I went back and forth to Germany, in uniform on a civilian aircraft, with a folding stock M1 carbine and a Beretta pistol in my duffel bag. No one on either end cared. I just showed my military ID and travel orders and they waved me right through Customs.

During WWII and Korea, lots of pistols and rifles were listed as lost or battle damaged, when they actually ended up in duffel bags. It was up to local unit commanders to decide who got away with what.
this practice has actually led to a lot of grief for the members of these vet's families after their passing. grandpa passes and makes instant felons of their surviving family members; being in possession of an unregistered machine gun
 

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Last year in one of the north eastern states I think, a widow took a STG-44 to a police gun buyback. When the cops saw what she had, they arranged and took her to a museum to donate it. I don't know if she received any money for it.-Lloyd 🍻
 

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Last year in one of the north eastern states I think, a widow took a STG-44 to a police gun buyback. When the cops saw what she had, they arranged and took her to a museum to donate it. I don't know if she received any money for it.-Lloyd 🍻
I remember reading about that.

MORE THAN A HOBBY, A PASSION!

REN🇺🇸
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Last year in one of the north eastern states I think, a widow took a STG-44 to a police gun buyback. When the cops saw what she had, they arranged and took her to a museum to donate it. I don't know if she received any money for it.-Lloyd 🍻
When we were kids, maybe 13, 14, a kid in the neighborhood had a long barreled German Luger.
Someone said it was an Artillery pistol, we didn't know.
His dad brought it back from WWII, anyway, the little squirt was always in the backyard playing with it.
Didn't mean **** to us, every kid had this stuff back then.
Last time I saw the Luger, it is was laying in the grass in the yard pretty much all rusted up.
 

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To answer the barrel life question - it all depends. Firstly, barrel life is highly affected by how fast the rifle is shot and how often. If someone shoots long bursts in full auto frequently, the barrel life is shortened considerably. Also, barrel life is adversely affected by careless cleaning with a segmented cleaning rod. Until an armorer inspects a rifle for throat erosion and/or muzzle wear, it probably won’t be rebarreled even if it is worn beyond the established wear limits.

If someone shoots a service rifle in competition, the barrel life can be pretty long - like 5000 rounds. Competition is pretty easy on barrels.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
To answer the barrel life question - it all depends. Firstly, barrel life is highly affected by how fast the rifle is shot and how often. If someone shoots long bursts in full auto frequently, the barrel life is shortened considerably. Also, barrel life is adversely affected by careless cleaning with a segmented cleaning rod. Until an armorer inspects a rifle for throat erosion and/or muzzle wear, it probably won’t be rebarreled even if it is worn beyond the established wear limits.

If someone shoots a service rifle in competition, the barrel life can be pretty long - like 5000 rounds. Competition is pretty easy on barrels.
5000 rounds? That's not a lot, is it?
The USGI rods can damage barrel that much?
Wonder why they issued them???
Thanks!
 

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Some useless information...

A rack grade, standard issue M14 only had to hold about 5 moa when manufactured. That was considered acceptable in 1960. (also in 1950 and 1940).

Steel cleaning rods do not damage the barrel when used properly (breech to muzzle cleaning). The problem is that soldiers (and civilians) are too lazy to clean the barrel properly.

Not sure about the M14, but the M1 Garand was considered unacceptable for deployment if the the TE was over 6. For stateside training, it was acceptable up to the end of the gauge.

Empirical testing has shown that 1-2k rounds will move the TE gauge 1 number, depending on the type of powder and rate of fire. It's not a perfect system.

You also need to know what the TE measures when the barrel is new. An M1 Garand could leave the factory with a TE as high as 3. M14's were closer to 0. Match grade barrels could be throated for long, heavy bullets and read a 1 or 2 when brand new.

Match shooters that track these specifics often say that the accuracy degrades at around 5k rounds. Of course, their idea of accuracy degradation is when the rifle goes from 1 moa to 1.5 moa. Other folks would be thrilled if their barrel could shoot 1.5 moa.
 

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5000 rounds? That's not a lot, is it?
The USGI rods can damage barrel that much?
Wonder why they issued them???
Thanks!
As Kurt noted, a segmented rod isn’t real bad if used with a lot of care. If used without care, they are horrible for muzzle wear. Many M1 carbines needed to have the muzzle counterbored after WWII because they were always cleaned with segmented cleaning rods unlike M1 rifles which were generally cleaned in the field using pull through cleaning kits.

While one can get more than 5000 rds out of a barrel, as Kurt noted, barrels start to show degradation in match use around 5000 rds. Some folks do get up to 7000 rds out of a match barrel but that’s usually a stretch.

If you shoot a lot of rapid fire, you will experience reduced barrel life but most folks who shoot a lot of rapid fire also don’t care a lot about precision. Now if you use a stainless steel or chrome lined barrel, you will experience extended barrel life. Of course, few people use chrome lined barrels for any applications that involve high precision. If barrel life is important to you, go with a stainless steel barrel.
 

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I lost all of my rifles & handguns in a mishap on Rio Grande when the barge hit a sandbar and sank.
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When you went to boot camp you were issued a M14, correct? Yes
You memorized the Serial number? Yes in 1969.
That was your rifle? For my time in boot camp.
You get shipped out to Vietnam, did you take that same rifle with you and use it the entire time in country? No, issued a new rifle (M16)!
When you left, assuming you were still in the service, did you take that same rifle back to whatever post you were going to? No.
Was that your rifle the entire time you were in military? No, issued a new rifle at each Unit.
Anyone here ever fire theirs enough so as to need the Barrell replaced? No.
How many rounds were expected to be fired before a major overhaul was needed? Didn't think that would ever happen in my life time.
XXIV Corps
 

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I was Issued an M16 when I joined MCB7, in preparation for deploying to Chu Lai in August 1969. However, orders were changed, and I ended up at Public Affairs, COMCBLANT, for duration of active duty. I did use an M16 at Camp Lejeune for quals before orders were changed. We weren't issued any rifles on staff initially. However, when things got sideways in the Middle East in May 1970, CBLANT was designated to replace Army Corps of Engineers in Europe if they were deployed to the Middle East. At that point, I was issued a nice, new M14, and a armory-rebuilt Colt 1911. Both were tack drivers. When I was discharged to CIVLANT, my records reflected that both were returned to the armorers.

After active duty, I shot for the Navy Reserve. We had a Marine service company at our station, and they loaned us some M14's still in the racks. We used them for three years, taking them to Camp Perry and having Marine armorers, or Navy Gunner's Mates rebuild them nearly from scratch. In 1974, though the Marine Reservists had to dispose of their remaining M14's, so we turned them in for disposal. We shot the National Matches in 1974 with the M16-A2, but the armorers at Camp Perry rebuilt them, and we ended up with some really fine rifles. I took a discharge in 1978.
 
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