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Vietnam & Combat Engineers with M-14s?

3K views 30 replies 11 participants last post by  LoboMike14 
#1 ·
I grew up with a guy, been best pals since we were 11 years old. Never known him to exaggerate or spin wild tales. Anyway, he enlisted in June 1969 and was soon off to Vietnam where they made him a Combat Engineer. He wrote me almost every week he could, keep me up on what he was doing. He was there for two tours.

Originally he was with the 24th Infantry, then the 5th Mech. The entire time he was there he and a lot of guys used M-14s and they loved them to no ends.

My question is this: Did the army just not have enough M-16s, or did they not care what a guy used while there? Did at any point did the army make guys turn in their M-14s? Why were the Engineers allowed to keep them for so long?

Just wondering . . .
 
#2 ·
Back in the day, line units such as Infantry were often called TO&E units, since they strictly adhered to the Table of Organization and Equipment. Each soldier's authorized weapon was listed and accounted for. No substitutions.

When it comes to support and specialized units, the weapons allowed on the TO&E might be a little less regimental. A Combat Engineer unit probably has more important things to worry about than individual weapons.
 
#3 ·
Hey, you just made me think of something, a pal of mine's older brother tripped a wire one night . . . he was wounded very badly. Told us he lay there all night, the VC were poking all around looking for him. He said he was so scared he could hear his heart beating, then a VC actually stepped between his legs. He was with the 4th Infantry around Pleiku (sp?)

Anyway, daylight came and some Rangers found him. He told us the army made him pay for his lost M-16.

Now I'm not saying what this guy said is true about paying for his rifle or not. He was a tall tale kind of guy.

Do you think the army really made guys pay for lost weapons?
 
#4 ·
My old friend, the ex-Engineer, came home, couldn't live in the city anymore, went down to his grandparent's farm in North Carolina, enrolled in UNC, got a teaching degree, then a job teaching. He called me one night, said he couldn't stand the teaching job, so he quit and went back into the army as a Warrant Officer helicopter pilot where he stayed until about 10 + years ago. His last duty was with the 10th Mountain Div in NY where he retired.

He often comes down here from Watertown to hang out and enjoys my shooting range and is always talking about the M-14 back in the day. I always had other things on my plate so somehow never got a M-14 . . . until 2 months ago. So next time he comes down we'll be all set!

Oh, by the way, some years later while on active duty he was awarded a CIB for Vietnam. So the engineers did get into it like the other guys.
 
#7 · (Edited)
Holy Mackerel!
You're saying if you hit a trip wire and are blown half up you had to pay them for you lost equipment?
Unbelievable!
Every circumstance is different and pretty much up to your Commanding Officer. Weapons get damaged, but seldom lost. Every effort is made to recover them, to keep them out of enemy or non-authorized hands. If a weapon is "non recoverable" because of a combat situation, it would probably require a statement from others in the AO. Again, every unit handles things differently. Some go by the book, others leave it up to the discretion of the CO. Nothing is "unheard of" when it comes to the Army. :p

A Statement of Charges for a lost rifle was probably just over $100 back then.
 
#8 ·
I've got another story . . .
another pal I grew up with enlisted when he was 17, was in the Airborne, went to Vietnam in 1966, he ended up with the Rangers, SF, and eventually with the the . . . .
  • 11Th Armored Cavalry Regiment Shield Shaped Sticker Black image 0


11Th Armored Cavalry Regiment
He was an E-6 when he was 20 years old, so many combat decorations, Silver Stars, etc. . . . He stayed in Vietnam until the end. He did 46 months in Vietnam.

He was another truth teller you could always believe . . . man did he have some stories. He told me that movie "Platoon" was the the most realistic combat scene he ever saw. They were in Cambodia, they'd run out of ammo, the NV and VC were out of ammo. They were all fighting with anything they could get their hands on, E-tools, rocks, fist fighting, anything they could grab as a weapon. It was a jungle street fight.

I think I got off topic here . . . sorry . . .
 
#23 ·
I've got another story . . .
another pal I grew up with enlisted when he was 17, was in the Airborne, went to Vietnam in 1966, he ended up with the Rangers, SF, and eventually with the the . . . .
  • 11Th Armored Cavalry Regiment Shield Shaped Sticker Black image 0


11Th Armored Cavalry Regiment
He was an E-6 when he was 20 years old, so many combat decorations, Silver Stars, etc. . . . He stayed in Vietnam until the end. He did 46 months in Vietnam.

He was another truth teller you could always believe . . . man did he have some stories. He told me that movie "Platoon" was the the most realistic combat scene he ever saw. They were in Cambodia, they'd run out of ammo, the NV and VC were out of ammo. They were all fighting with anything they could get their hands on, E-tools, rocks, fist fighting, anything they could grab as a weapon. It was a jungle street fight.

I think I got off topic here . . . sorry . . .
Korea was the same. I can recall my dad and his Marine buddies taking about sharpening entrenching tools to be used as a rather effective close-in personal weapon. Dad always carried two knives for hand to hand combat.
 
#10 ·
I've got another story . . .
another pal I grew up with enlisted when he was 17, was in the Airborne, went to Vietnam in 1966, he ended up with the Rangers, SF, and eventually with the the . . . .

  • 11Th Armored Cavalry Regiment Shield Shaped Sticker Black image 0

11Th Armored Cavalry Regiment
He was an E-6 when he was 20 years old, so many combat decorations, Silver Stars, etc. . . . He stayed in Vietnam until the end. He did 46 months in Vietnam.
11th Armored Cavalry (Regiment)
Arrived in Vietnam 8th September 1966
Departed Vietnam 5 March 1971

The end of the Vietnam War was much later in April 30th 1975.
 
#17 ·
So how much was an ordinary infantryman making a month in Vietnam?
$125.00 had to be a big bite out of his paycheck.
I was nearly making 180$ a month with combat pay before I came home from my last tour.
 
#19 ·
Base pay, hostile fire pay, overseas pay ..... I cleared $310 a month. There were no deductions as we did not have to pay income tax.

The Marine Corps had a savings program, I assume it was a DOD program, where you could "bank" a portion of your pay each month and it would earn 10% annual interest. I never participated in it because there were too many horror stories of records being lost and your money disappeared. This happened to enough people that I decided it was not for me.
 
#24 ·
Meant to ask you veterans . . . What happened to the M-14s the military took back from soldiers in Vietnam?
Did they ship them back to the states? Store them in Vietnam? Any ideas?

Speaking of this, I've wondered for many years what happened to all the U.S. equipment left behind
in Vietnam. If I recall correctly, S. Vietnam was one of the best equipped armies in the world.

I'm sure N. Vietnam did not melt it all down for scrap.
My bet is they made a lot of money selling USGI equipment around the world.

What do you guys think?
 
#25 ·
I knew a guy who was assigned to our military in Vietnam who got to pick his rifle. He picked the M14 for its ability to penetrate for disabling Booby traps, etc. So it was like a combat engineer tool the reasoning behind picking it. It was after the M16 was fielded, hence the available choice.
 
#27 · (Edited)
Statement of Charges. I once saw a SSG really wanting to give it to a guy who backed over an M16A1 with a deuce and a half in 1983. The Estimated Cost of Damages was under 10 bucks. The SSG was PO'd because he thought the soldier should pay for a whole rifle. The only damage was two broken handguards and a bent gas tube.

Whether he paid anything or got an Article 15, I don't know.
 
#28 ·
Once back in the 1970s a bunch of us were in a pal's parents station wagon going to a Hendrix concert in Richmond.
It was a Friday night and there was a really bad accident ahead of us on I-95, bunch of hurt people on the road.
We stopped and were pretty near the carnage, then a National Guard convoy comes racing up the side of the interstate
and two trucks pull right up alongside of us and stop to help.
Soldiers are jumping out with their packs and M-14 rifles which they set down up against the guard rail, then run to help the people.
To make a long story short, after they were done they jumped back in the trucks and begin racing off.
We were all standing there looking at all these rifles, then looking at each other, wondering what to do.
All of a sudden the truck in the distance brake lights come on, the truck began racing back to us in reverse.
The soldiers all jump out and begin feverishly thanking us for watching their equipment.
Wow! What would have happened to them had we grabbed everything and took off?
Those of us still around today still talk about that night.
 
#30 ·
Yeah, we all knew that and later discussed it. Funny thing is that not one of us actually thought of taking that equipment.
We were wanting to get to the concert and were gonna be way late due to the delay. The state troopers had left, the army trucks had left,
and we were still standing by the guard rail wondering what to do. We couldn't just leave. We were afraid to put it all in the station wagon
and try to catch up because if we got stopped no one would believe us that we were trying to catch the trucks. So we were stuck!

And thank goodness we saw the brake lights come on. That truck must have been doing 65 mph in reverse!

Talked to my friend last night, our "wheel man" he said this happened in 1968 or Spring of 1969.
He went in the army in June 1969 and off to Vietnam. It was a hot night too, so he is thinking summer of 1968.
He also said most of the car's other occupants were also in Vietnam from summer of 1969 on wards.
He also corrected me that it was not the Hendrix concert we went to, but he could not recall which one it was.
This guy, the driver, was the combat engineer I referred to in my post here.
 
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