[gsaviate]

I'm real sorry if this is a repeat, but there's a lot of threads here to search. Back about 10 years ago, I purchased several lbs of Varget, planing to use it in M1A NRA/CMP matches. Before I got into using it, I saw some info in some documents that suggested Varget did not have a good pressure curve for that rifle. Anybody with current information who can either back that up or dispute it, I would love to hear from you. I generally use 168 match, was going to move to 175 at 600. Appreciate any info I can get. Thanks
George

 

[bustedknuckles]

I stick to all I've said about the subject.
You and your rifle will survive intact assuming you reload properly, but it is not the best powder for your gas system. Some will argue that but they're wrong.
If I had a couple pounds I'd load it and shoot it no problem. But I dont, because I wont buy any and i dont have people giving me powder.
It is in fact safe for use in m1a variants, just keep to the books and dont exceed max charges of course.
Oh, and FWIW, you dont need the heavy bullet for 600. 175grainers are more for pushing 1k.
155 match bullets have been good to me.

 

[Johnb2488]

I'm real sorry if this is a repeat, but there's a lot of threads here to search. Back about 10 years ago, I purchased several lbs of Varget, planing to use it in M1A NRA/CMP matches. Before I got into using it, I saw some info in some documents that suggested Varget did not have a good pressure curve for that rifle. Anybody with current information who can either back that up or dispute it, I would love to hear from you. I generally use 168 match, was going to move to 175 at 600. Appreciate any info I can get. Thanks
George

Complete BS

 

[TheShooter]

You can use it in yours but it wont come anywhere near mine!
4064 works for me so I have no reason to look else where

 

[Grizzman]

According to my powder burn list (printed about 10 years ago) Varget is 3 steps slower than Hodgdon 4895, and 3 steps faster than IMR 4064. This makes it seem completely reasonable to use.....and I do use it, with great results.

Another chart, which appears to be from 2012 has Varget slower than IMR4064 and RL15, and faster than BL-C(2) and CFE 223.

IMR's list from 2019, Winchester's list from 2017, and Hodgdon's list from 2016 also have Varget a few steps slower than IMR 4064, and a few steps faster than BL-C(2) and CFE 223.


Is it the perfect powder? Nope, but it doesn’t need to be. It just needs to be safe for the rifle and you, and to deliver good performance.

 

[charlie98]

I stick to all I've said about the subject.
You and your rifle will survive intact assuming you reload properly, but it is not the best powder for your gas system. Some will argue that but they're wrong.
If I had a couple pounds I'd load it and shoot it no problem. But I dont, because I wont buy any and i dont have people giving me powder.
It is in fact safe for use in m1a variants, just keep to the books and dont exceed max charges of course.
Oh, and FWIW, you dont need the heavy bullet for 600. 175grainers are more for pushing 1k.
155 match bullets have been good to me.

I would agree with that statement, particularly the part...

...but it is not the best powder for your gas system.

 

[Random Guy]

See posts #9 and #13 by member Burnt Nitrates. I have tied it once and it shoots well, but as he notes, its the maximum load in Hornady's M1A Service Rifle section - so under no circumstances would I exceed this load, and I would also not use it with a mil-spec CCI#34 primer without backing off the powder charge.

https://m14forum.com/accuracy/497296-entries-january-2020-m14-dirty-bird-challenge.html

My load:
42.7 grains VARGET
CCI BR-2 primer
Hornady 168 grain A-Max; No crimp
Lapua case
2.796" OAL
Velocity (41° at 420 ft elevation): 2473 fps SD: 12
It the maximum load listed in the Hornady Service Rifle section for a 168 and VARGET. Hence it's definitely safe for M1A.
Hope this helps...
BN

...he's been putting up amazing 100 yards targets for a long time with that pet load. I use mostly I-4064 in my M1As, but this Varget load looks good too and its pretty mild. I load my a little longer at 2.815", and if you are using a CCI#34 primer, I'd back off another 0.3 to 0.5 grains, and start at 41.5 and probably max at 42.3 or so. Varget is arguably the slowest burn rate powder one could use in an M1A, and as such the loads need to be kept on the mild side. (FWIW, Varget in a 30-06 M1 Garand with a 168 SMK is also a good combo, again, assuming the load is kept on the mild side).

My 2cts.

 

[bustedknuckles]

Wow! A civil varget discussion.
I'm glad I spoke my mind now, I usually dont.

But from what griz said about the burn chart, I've always seen varget a hair slower than 4064, not saying hes wrong, just trying to point out different lots of powder can sometimes vary. I've seen powders move up or down a spot or two depending on the date of the data.
Varget and 4064 have always remained on the slow side of what's considered the limit for m1a variants.

 

[Phil “Murphy” McGrath]

Hmmm, Ok I will give my .02 worth on the Varget subject as I've burnt my share and more than likely part of someone else's as well. Depending on the bullet used (168SMK/NCC or 175SMK/NCC) my loads vary from 41.5 to 42.0grns all in a LC case, coal is 2.82 with either bullet. YMMV.

Everyone would freak out if I passed on my Long Range load with the 185 Hybrid using IMR-4320 seated long.

 

[bustedknuckles]

I've seen some folk reload to velocity that is insane. Those folks have $ and spare parts lol. But I do commend them for having the nerve and desire to push it to the extreme. I like it. On the same note not just anybody can fool around with pushing the envelope. Must have the knowledge.
As long as I get my point across that slow powders are not the best for gas systems I'm happy. That's all I've ever tried to accomplish.

 

[Grizzman]

9,150 to 12,650 psi 15 inches from the breech face (which, by the way, is not where an M14 gas port is, it's 13.957) is the specified port pressure.

I see no reason to not believe the info Lysander provided, so that's what I'll use for my example. QuickLOAD uses projectile travel in the pressure graph, so 13 inches of projectile travel should be approximately 15 inches from the breech face.

41.7 grains of Varget in a case with 56.12 gr H2O capacity driving a 168 grain A-Max loaded to 2.820" OAL should give approximately 2500 fps from a 22" barrel. It will have approximately 13,338 psi at 15" from the breech face. This is approximately 5.44% above the recommended psi range.

39.5 grains of powder, all else the same, is the point at which the psi should be 12,520 psi...and therefore fully within the recommended range. The predicted velocity is 2385 fps.

You may be thinking that Ramshot TAC, which is show on Hodgdon's burn rate chart to be very slightly faster than H and IMR 4895 to be ideal. When driving the same A-Max as above, reaching 2500 fps from 42.9 grains indicates 13,534 at 15" from the breech face.

40.9 grains of IMR 4895, with all the above unchanged, should be enough to achieve the same 2500 fps from the 22" barrel. The projected psi at 15" of projectile travel is.........14,026. Hmmmm, how can that be?



The projected chamber pressure for all of the above loads is at or below 50,000 psi. If you want numbers using a specific chamber pressure, those can easily be generated.

 

[thesurvivalshop]

I just started setting up loads with Varget , for my 18.5" & SOCOM , seems like a good shooting Powder . I'm at 43.5gr. with a 155 gr. Match Monster & out of the 18.5" bbl.

'155gr. Match Monster, 43.5 gr. Varget ,avg.Vel.2560 fps , ES 15 fps , SD 6 fps ( Magnetospeed Chronograph )

 

[30Caliber]

I’ve shot a lot of Varget and I like it. My one grip is that it’s the first powder to disappear off the shelves when people start panic buying.

 

[Johnb2488]

Grizzman the port pressure is more critical than 15” from the breech, as the bullet travels down the barrel, pressure decreases it is an explosion in a chamber. I run 43grains with a 155 Hornady match in my 22” and 44.4 in my Socom. The 43grains works well with both but the 44.4 in my Socom squeezes out a more accurate load. A 5 shot 2.5” groups at 500yds versus a 4” group at 500yds with 43 grains. Tried and true

 

[Phil “Murphy” McGrath]

This just came too me, has anyone compared M80 ball against Q/L and if so what were those figures? I doubt its 50K @ the chamber or 12.5 @ gas port.........

That's just me spit balling....

 

[Grizzman]

Grizzman the port pressure is more critical than 15” from the breech, as the bullet travels down the barrel, pressure decreases it is an explosion in a chamber. I run 43grains with a 155 Hornady match in my 22” and 44.4 in my Socom. The 43grains works well with both but the 44.4 in my Socom squeezes out a more accurate load. A 5 shot 2.5” groups at 500yds versus a 4” group at 500yds with 43 grains. Tried and true

I certainly agree that port pressure is what's important. Is the 12,500 psi a valid number?

I was going off of the info provided by lysander, who seems to have solid knowledge of the platform.

 

[Mountain]

Zero reasons to avoid Varget for the M1A. I've not heard of this Varget rumor. Possibly started by someone who was getting tired of it being out of stock?

Personal preference to use it or not, but I've had excellent results. My pet M1A load in a self-built Bula typically gets me a 98 worst case to a clean slow prone target in CMP competitions and 100's plus a lot of X's in postal matches. There might be a powder that can do as well, maybe better in one of my match rifles but Varget is either best or as good as in all my match rifles including the M1's. I only use Benchmark for .223 because it is much easier to meter in small amounts.

 

[bustedknuckles]

The only reason is it's hard on the gas system. Kind of like conventional oil vs synthetic. Synthetic is better. If you swear by conventional that's fine by me

 

[bustedknuckles]

Using varget is fine in the m14, just be aware of its shortcomings.

 

[Johnb2488]

This just came too me, has anyone compared M80 ball against Q/L and if so what were those figures? I doubt its 50K @ the chamber or 12.5 @ gas port.........

That's just me spit balling....

Do you have the specifics, I will be more than happy to plug them in.