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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I thought it would be kind of cool to put together a photo album of M14E2 parts to share with the rest of the forum. This will be done in stages as I gather pictures for this thread, please feel free to add to it.
It was brought to my attention by several members that this might be a fake, so I got in touch with Mr. Bill Ricca and provided additional pictures. He said that it is in his words,"legit" and "good to go."

I did save the emails between Bill Ricca and myself, with attached pictures.

Thanks, David Harrill for getting it right, I will never doubt you again, you are the most knowledgeable M14 collector I know!

First series of pictures are of the E2 Stabilizer.



















 

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Once in awhile we see sets of M14 manufacturing drawings being sold. I wonder if there are any drawings around for the E2/A1?

Great pics, by the way Ren!
 

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Discussion Starter #6 (Edited)
E2 Stabilizer

David Harrill and Bill Ricca got it right, this is the real deal and good to go!

I don't know if many here know David Harrill, he is without a doubt one of the most knowledgable on the M14, if people were awarded degrees for their M14 knowledge, he would have his Doctorate! For the past 30 or so years David has spent much of that time studying the M14. He has seen many demilled receivers and knows how to identify a TRW manufactured rear sight base, I doubt if anyone else here can do the same. He has seen and handled litterally thousands of M14 stocks, this man knows the M14.

He is also the reason I have so many rare M14 parts, most of what I have(the really good stuff) came from David, and for that I will always be very grateful.
 

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Thanks very much for this set of photos - those who are currently laying out considerable money for what they hope are original, US GI collectable parts that are rare enough not to have been commonly seen, certainly need the help. Some of us are not close to a large gun show to look at originals, and, in any event, have no way to know, with certainty, what we are being offered.

The argument that we "don't want to alert the counterfeiters" about correct markings, shapes and finishes doesn't really make sense. If I really wanted to counterfeit a large enough volume parts to make enough money to pay for the tooling and effort (rather than just reproduce an acceptable copy for useage) let's say, the buttplate assembly or the flash hider, I would simply buy a REAL ONE and duplicate it exactly. It is obvious, from the quality of the existing repros, that doing an undetectable repro isn't really all that easy.

I am a fairly good arms historian who would love to have "one of everything" for my collection, but who, unfortunately, does not have the funds for "100 % GI original" in all cases, and thus a decent repro vs. not owning an example is acceptable. And if I wish to actually shoot/use the item, I'd MUCH RATHER use a good, completely functional repro than use up a valuable, non-replaceable original part. Some of us want to use this stuff, and not just leave it on the shelf! The M14E2 stock is comfortable and works better with a scope than the regular M14 stock. Hinges and rubber parts wear or can get finish damage with only a little use, for example. Also, some things are seldom seen in my location. I am not alone in having a budget and yet wanting to pay only for what I need - or am getting.

Thanks for the photos! CC
 

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Thanks very much for this set of photos - those who are currently laying out considerable money for what they hope are original, US GI collectable parts that are rare enough not to have been commonly seen, certainly need the help. Some of us are not close to a large gun show to look at originals, and, in any event, have no way to know, with certainty, what we are being offered.

The argument that we "don't want to alert the counterfeiters" about correct markings, shapes and finishes doesn't really make sense. If I really wanted to counterfeit a large enough volume parts to make enough money to pay for the tooling and effort (rather than just reproduce an acceptable copy for useage) let's say, the buttplate assembly or the flash hider, I would simply buy a REAL ONE and duplicate it exactly. It is obvious, from the quality of the existing repros, that doing an undetectable repro isn't really all that easy. I agree, even with a C&C machine it would be very difficult to fool the trained eye of an accomplished collector.

I am a fairly good arms historian who would love to have "one of everything" for my collection, but who, unfortunately, does not have the funds for "100 % GI original" in all cases, and thus a decent repro vs. not owning an example is acceptable. And if I wish to actually shoot/use the item, I'd MUCH RATHER use a good, completely functional repro than use up a valuable, non-replaceable original part. Some of us want to use this stuff, and not just leave it on the shelf! The M14E2 stock is comfortable and works better with a scope than the regular M14 stock. Hinges and rubber parts wear or can get finish damage with only a little use, for example. Also, some things are seldom seen in my location. I am not alone in having a budget and yet wanting to pay only for what I need - or am getting.

Thanks for the photos! CC
Good point Col., many of us here are trying to get an education on the history and development of a relatively short lived rifle and it's even shorter change in configuration, having limited records on both, especially the latter. I doubt withholding detailed information on obscure items is going to curtail the dishonest from bilking the uninformed, for evil knows no bounds but their deeds will be exposed by those of truth. What good is a forum if we can't share our knowledge, unless of course power is the overriding factor.
 

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I have to agree with Col Colt on this. While I enjoy the thrill of the hunt I see no reason not to Shoot and use the item. I picked up 2 Beautiful M1Ds and am working on a NFA M1A. I told TNW50Cal I will shoot it with a REAL E2 stabilizer in a real SA E2 walnut stock. Of course he thinks Im nuts for doing that but I am not going to leave an unfired gun for someone to make money on. The only thing remaining unfired in my collections will be my NIB Colt 1911's from the 50s and 60s. (those are for my kids)
 

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I have to agree with Col Colt on this. While I enjoy the thrill of the hunt I see no reason not to Shoot and use the item. I picked up 2 Beautiful M1Ds and am working on a NFA M1A. I told TNW50Cal I will shoot it with a REAL E2 stabilizer in a real SA E2 walnut stock. Of course he thinks Im nuts for doing that but I am not going to leave an unfired gun for someone to make money on. The only thing remaining unfired in my collections will be my NIB Colt 1911's. (those are for my kids)
Life is short wags, and as far as I know, it ends much the same as it started, having nothing. A rifle is only a tool to be used for a purpose, war, hunting, target, self defense etc., all meaningful uses in life or it can be just an object of romance that we pull out of the safe to fondle and admire from time to time. I like to do both and live life to it's fullest.
 

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I understand both sides of the argument, but to me, I spent to much time and money on this stuff not to enjoy it and use it as much as possible. I like to get the most bangs for my buck with the m14 stuff, so just looking at these things is out of the question for me. I guess that makes me more a shooter than collector.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Gentlemen, first and foremost their is no right or wrong when it comes to collecting or shooting. The shooter will never understand what makes a collector tick, and a collector will never understand why someone would want to put wear on a rare piece of history!

I like to shoot, have been all my life, but I see no need in shooting something that cannot be replaced. My next build will be an all Winchester with a new SAK barrel, it will be correct and it will be a shooter, one I hope my son and I will enjoy for a very long time.

But please don't think that just because I have rifles I choose not to shoot, that I don't enjoy them as much as the shooters enjoy theirs. There is pride in ownership and in the knowledge that you have something that most will never own.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
The first picture is of an E2 stabilizer that was said to be fake but after careful and detailed study it appears to be an original USGI third generation E2 stabilizer by Herlo Engineering,the second is also a real USGI E2 stabilizer by Herlo Engineering Co. of CA.



This is the real one.
 

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I do thank you for taking the time to share your fine rifles and parts. Your taste in parts is superb, expensive though. Yea I am jealous, but hey, I can't have it all.
 

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The first picture is of an out and out fake E2 stabilizer and to the untrained eye these two are identical but if you look closer you will see marked differences, the second is of a real USGI E2 stabilizer.



This is the real one.
I'm going to disagree with you on that one Ren. As someone who left finger parts in a machine shop no one piece is exactly the same as another. No raw casting is the same as another. A brand new drill bit cuts better than one that has drilled a 100 holes, same with a endmill ,etc. If a part has +/- .060 for a tolerance, that is a 1/8 inch difference in length between the high side and low side but both parts are within tolerence. In looking at both those pictures you're looking at no more than .010 to .015 of a inch and your stabilizer would have the same finish as mine. Note how the MPI is stamped at exactly the same angle with the same distance between letters and the letters are the same size. They were not hand stamped,they were machine stamped--you have one machine and one fixture to do that--that cost money for the set up.

In the thread from Bill Ricca he said the guy in Michigan didn't stamp his repo's like that but maybe he started--he didn't know one way or the other. The fact remains the later real ones were stamped with MPI,something I didn't know when I asked Bill, but I do now. So either Bill is wrong about mine or wrong about yours, you yourself PM'd me and said the only difference between mine and yours was the pictures you posted above and what you've shown is well within normal variance of parts. In the end I only paid $80.00 for mine.

I remember a certain TRW barrel that I said right from the beginning was reparked just from looking at the pictures--other's here said it wasn't just from looking at the pictures and who was right. Please don't use the 2 pictures you posted as proof of a real and a fake stabilizer, you might be right or you might be wrong.

Take a look at this auctionarms auction---6097529 . Note the part number numbers. Those numbers are stamped exactly(or dam close to it) the same as your's and mine --note the 1 at the end, etc. Note it is stamped MPI.
 
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