[CLASSIC12]

From time to time I see unusual stuff for sale, so I thought I’d start a thread about it.

A Swiss army flamethrower, last inspected in 1994

 

[Got Colt]

My local gun shop sells modern flame throwers. They are not strapped to the operators back, but still, they’re pretty neat. Buy American whenever you can. Even if it’s a flamethrower.

 

[ManxumFoe]

As a teenager tasked with spraying weed killer on crabgrass, I strapped a 2- or 3-gallon pump-up tank of something nasty onto an Army surplus pack board to walk around with. My WW-II veteran father (North Africa, Italy, France etc) firmly insisted that I un-rig it and drag it around by the handle.

Wonder why? See the pictures above.

 

[CLASSIC12]

I think I already posted this a couple of years ago but I thought I’d fit nicely here

Three years ago I saw an ad for a weird home made pistol. It seems a gentleman named Philip Sola in Zurich, Switzerland, decided in 1970 to build his own semi automatic handgun chambered in .357 Magnum with a lateral toggle slide. Price was abt $ 3200

The seller recommended against firing this prototype

 

[Cool Breeze]

So back to the OP. I was curious if flame throwers were banned by the Geneva as I don't ever recall seeing them or being deployed during my time in service, but I did find this:

"As weaponry has become more advanced, so have the rules of warfare. Though flamethrowers aren’t entirely banned, you can’t use them to fry your enemies, according to Protocol III of the Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons. This clause prohibits the use of incendiary weapons on people."

And:

"There are two reasons why the flamethrower is no longer used by the U.S. military. Reason 1 – Social Politics. No one wants to see images of a U.S. soldier burning a human being alive. Also, with changes in modern warfare, the enemy hides within the civilian population."

And lastly:

"Although the flamethrower was a highly effective killing tool, the operator was at a total disadvantage as the supply tank only allowed the weapon to spread its deadly incendiary for about 10 seconds before running out of fuel — leaving the operator somewhat defenseless."


So anyway, as I remember it, didn't they use a mixture of gasoline & soap to make it sticky, and usually charged with compressed air via a hand pump or provision to attach a compressor? I'm noticing this Swiss version has a couple of cylinders that could oxygen? if so, that would burn even hotter. Gotta admit being fascinated how that one works.

 

[Jackofalltrades03]

So anyway, as I remember it, didn't they use a mixture of gasoline & soap to make it sticky, and usually charged with compressed air via a hand pump or provision to attach a compressor? I'm noticing this Swiss version has a couple of cylinders that could oxygen? if so, that would burn even hotter. Gotta admit being fascinated how that one works.

No, you would never use oxygen in on of those. You would not be able to shield yourself from the heat. Oxygen superchargers a flame or burn at something on the order of 5X.

The pressure vessel was charged with air/nitrogen/CO2. The fuel was any combination that was available gas/diesel/JP4 with some type of thickener laundry soap to a specific application based material.

 

[nicholst55]

IIRC, and my memory of this is a bit hazy, I believe that in the US Army, flamethrowers were repurposed as 'Disperser, Riot Control Agent.' This would have been the late 70s or early 80s. Yeah, you can't burn people alive any more, thus both flamethrowers and napalm are no longer used. You can still shoot them or blow them up, dismember them, etc., but not burn them alive.

 

[thoban531]

So back to the OP. I was curious if flame throwers were banned by the Geneva as I don't ever recall seeing them or being deployed during my time in service, but I did find this:

"As weaponry has become more advanced, so have the rules of warfare. Though flamethrowers aren’t entirely banned, you can’t use them to fry your enemies, according to Protocol III of the Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons. This clause prohibits the use of incendiary weapons on people."

I was stationed in Berlin in the mid-seventies and we trained on the loading and firing of flamethrowers. Not that any were issued to troops but we knew how to use them if necessary. Mixed up our own version of napalm for the main tank. As you said above it was a mixture of gasoline and dry laundry soap. Those darn things were dangerous no matter which end of it you were on!

 

[CLASSIC12]

A very familiar rifle but this variant is seemingly quite rare, a 1985 East German MPi KM. Most of them went to the crusher after the reunification of Germany. A good buddy of mine just bought it from the LGS

LV’s video on it

https://youtu.be/C_xnEqPGh2s

 

[lysander]

With flame throwers, the reason you thicken the fuel is not to make it sticky, or anything like that. The reason is much more practical. Thickened fuel shoots further, about 2 to 3 times further.

 

[Jim Horton]

As for unusual weapons...the Germans had a system called Typhoon. In his book D Day Through German Eyes, Holger Eckhertz interviewed many Germans who participated in the battle. One interviewee is Herr K. I. Bergmann who was a weapons specialist officer. He tells of the development and deployment of Typhoon. It was first used against static defenses in the Crimea. A mixture of coal dust and oxygen was pumped into bunkers and tunnels, then ignited with flame throwers. The Russians considered this to be chemical warfare and were assembling stockpiles of mustard gas to be used in retaliation, so the Germans stopped using Typhoon on the Eastern Front.
Enter Typhoon B. B version was to be used against ground targets. Rocket firing vehicles would launch canisters of kerosene blended with charcoal dust and aluminum powder. The heavier than air mixture would descend over the battlefield, spread out, and would be ignited by a secondary bombardment with incendiary rockets. The effect was devastating, as proven against Russian prisoners. Fortunately, on shore winds kept them from deploying on the beaches, but they thought the invasion would be near a port, such as Calais, so they deployed enough canisters for three Typhoon B explosions against the port. When it became obvious where the invasion was, they were deployed closer to the combat zone, their system to be used against armor concentrations. They kept re-deploying until in late July they were near St. Lo. They had orders to fire against estimated 400 vehicles near Ariel, preparing for Cobra. On the evening of 7/24, the conditions were perfect and the Germans troops were advised to seek cover before the explosion. At 12:55, just before launching, an artillery barrage crept toward them and ignited the kerosene canisters. They blew up in a fireball, but not in their proven devastating airburst way. After this they were not authorized to re-equip. End of Typhoon B. We would now call this a type of thermobaric weapon.

 

[lysander]

As for unusual weapons...the Germans had a system called Typhoon. In his book D Day Through German Eyes, Holger Eckhertz interviewed many Germans who participated in the battle. One interviewee is Herr K. I. Bergmann who was a weapons specialist officer. He tells of the development and deployment of Typhoon. It was first used against static defenses in the Crimea. A mixture of coal dust and oxygen was pumped into bunkers and tunnels, then ignited with flame throwers. The Russians considered this to be chemical warfare and were assembling stockpiles of mustard gas to be used in retaliation, so the Germans stopped using Typhoon on the Eastern Front.
Enter Typhoon B. B version was to be used against ground targets. Rocket firing vehicles would launch canisters of kerosene blended with charcoal dust and aluminum powder. The heavier than air mixture would descend over the battlefield, spread out, and would be ignited by a secondary bombardment with incendiary rockets. The effect was devastating, as proven against Russian prisoners. Fortunately, on shore winds kept them from deploying on the beaches, but they thought the invasion would be near a port, such as Calais, so they deployed enough canisters for three Typhoon B explosions against the port. When it became obvious where the invasion was, they were deployed closer to the combat zone, their system to be used against armor concentrations. They kept re-deploying until in late July they were near St. Lo. They had orders to fire against estimated 400 vehicles near Ariel, preparing for Cobra. On the evening of 7/24, the conditions were perfect and the Germans troops were advised to seek cover before the explosion. At 12:55, just before launching, an artillery barrage crept toward them and ignited the kerosene canisters. They blew up in a fireball, but not in their proven devastating airburst way. After this they were not authorized to re-equip. End of Typhoon B. We would now call this a type of thermobaric weapon.

Yes, the thermobaric weapon, or fuel-air bomb, many folks have developed such weapons.

They do have a major drawback, in cold, wet, misty weather, like found in Normandy in the early days of June 1944, they become far less effective. The reason is by spreading the fuel over a large area to mix with ambient air, in will also mix with the water inhibiting ignition. In a desert, there great. Is

 

[Jim Horton]

Yes, the thermobaric weapon, or fuel-air bomb, many folks have developed such weapons.

They do have a major drawback, in cold, wet, misty weather, like found in Normandy in the early days of June 1944, they become far less effective. The reason is by spreading the fuel over a large area to mix with ambient air, in will also mix with the water inhibiting ignition. In a desert, there great. Is

That's why our potato cannons worked better in the morning before the afternoon humidity set in.

 

[CLASSIC12]

Spotted a nifty little Polish machine pistol PM 63 RAK in 9 mm Makarov at the LGS (I didn’t buy it). Around $ 1200

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FB_PM-63

https://youtu.be/ygNcvAmR1oI

https://youtu.be/GqiNnfi2Z3A

 

[CLASSIC12]

A shooting buddy bought this Pardini GT9 S 9 mm Parabellum for a small fortune (over 3 grand). He did not like it, the grip was too wide for his small hands, so he sold it at a loss to another shooting buddy.

The barrel is very thick

50 m target, it shot a bit low and left for me so I had to adjust my aim. Very good trigger and soft recoiling pistol due to its all steel mass

 

[Thomas_Ruider]

A very familiar rifle but this variant is seemingly quite rare, a 1985 East German MPi KM. Most of them went to the crusher after the reunification of Germany. A good buddy of mine just bought it from the LGS

LV’s video on it

We have such east German AKs in Stock, they seem better than the russian originals.

 

[Thomas_Ruider]

Spotted a nifty little Polish machine pistol PM 63 RAK in 9 mm Makarov at the LGS (I didn’t buy it). Around $ 1200

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FB_PM-63

We have in our armory two of them, they are very dangerous, cause not safe in handling when loaded.

 

[Jackofalltrades03]

We have in our armory two of them, they are very dangerous, cause not safe in handling when loaded.

Why is that? Is there a problem with the safety or trigger?

 

[Thomas_Ruider]

Why is that? Is there a problem with the safety or trigger?

Its an open bolt fired gun, the slide just hold by a small sear bar with a ( very light ) progressive trigger.
Ian, as usual, can explain better than me:

please take a look at 10:45 min.