[Gabby]

Been out of pocket for years due to health reasons but have a question on ART scopes. I had to sell my M1A but kept the scope. For all intents and purposes it looks like an ART II, but has a 450 range ring. It does not say ARTII, has no sn as far as I can tell, and the eyepiece doesn't have the anodized OD green color. The whole scope has a gray parked finish look and only 3x9 marked on the side. I "assume" its a civie model but yet it doesn't have "MPC" marked anywhere. Its not an older Realist Camputer either. I am baffled. It doesn't have a mount nor case. I originally got it from a guy who said it came from a special ops guy (we know how those stories go) and I dont really buy into it, but grabbed the scope anyway. Its in great shape but I have no use for it.

Anyone able to enlighten my ignorance?
Thanx!

 

[wifetrained]

How about some pictures.

 

[Gabby]

I will try to remember to take some today

 

[2336USMC]

It might be a very early ART II. There was an article in Popular Mechanics in 1979 showing an early ART II that was marked "3x9" only on the side of the elevation turret. Later scopes were marked "3x9 ART II". The serial numbers were stamped into a metal foil sticker that was stuck to the scope tube. It's not uncommon for these stickers to be missing.

Photos will help.

 

[Gabby]

Here are 3 quick phone pics of it

 

[2336USMC]

More/better photos would help, but it looks like what you have there is a very early ART II QD version, late 70's vintage, before the Army contracts started. The 450 yard cam will be a civilian version designed for hunting. There should be a number stamped on the cam, probably 3 digits, that will identify what cartridge the cam was designed for. The cams are interchangeable and can be swapped out in about 5 minutes.

Nice scope! Can you get a photo of the reticle?

 

[tokiwartooth]

More/better photos would help, but it looks like what you have there is a very early ART II QD version, late 70's vintage, before the Army contracts started. The 450 yard cam will be a civilian version designed for hunting. There should be a number stamped on the cam, probably 3 digits, that will identify what cartridge the cam was designed for. The cams are interchangeable and can be swapped out in about 5 minutes.

Nice scope! Can you get a photo of the reticle?

Sure that's not the DPMS version?

 

[2336USMC]

Sure that's not the DPMS version?

No not 100% sure it's not DPMS, but there are several features I have seen on ART II scopes known to be late 70's prior to the Army contract.

Keep in mind this is based on photos and correspondence with the owners of just a few scopes, so I wouldn't call it definitive at this point...

First is the finish. Early pre-Army ART IIs appear to have been anodized on the main scope tube. I have seen black, gray, and a sort of bronze/brown color. Army contract and later ART IIs appear to have a coating applied to the main scope tube over the anodizing, it's a gray color that looks to me to be the exact same milspec gray coating used on USGI contract M16 magazines. The mounts have the same coating. The Army and later Leatherwood ART IIs had the eyepiece assy anodized OD green.

Second is the knurling on the eyepiece assy. Early ART IIs had a straight knurl, Army and later had an X crosshatch style knurling.

Third is the ring caps. The early ART II ring caps were "upside down," the cap screws insert from the bottom into blind holes in the caps, which are smooth on top. Later ART IIs have the cap screws installed from the top, and the screw heads are exposed in the top of the caps. Easier maintenance I would think.

Then there's the previously discussed marking on the elevation turret, early "3x9" vs. later "3x9 ART II".

 

[2336USMC]

Here are some examples...

This scope was sold on ebay, and the seller was kind enough to correspond with me about the history. He had the paperwork, ordered the scope direct from Leatherwood Bros. in March of 1977, the scope was delivered 6 months later making this a very early Leatherwood ART II. Note the smooth "upside down" ring caps, bronze/brown anodized finish on the main tube, and the straight knurling on the eyepiece. The eyepiece looks the same as those used on the later Camputer scopes, and my theory (theory only) is that Leatherwood was using up leftover Camputer parts to build the new ART IIs:

Here's another example. The Israeli IDF ordered some Leatherwood ART IIs very early, before the US Army did, and per this photo the scopes they received showed the early pre-US Army contract features. Note the "3x9" marking on the turret. The eyepiece is not OD green yet, and may actually have no knurling at all, and looks the same as the OP's scope. Note also the scope cradle is much more cut away than the later Army contract version. The upper scope in the photo is a later post-US Army contract version, note the "3x9 ART II" markings, the OD green eyepiece with crosshatch knurling, and the ring cap screws installed from the top:

Based on the features visible in the OP's photos, I am pretty sure that's an early Leatherwood ART II made sometime between the early Israeli order and the 1981 US Army contract. The fact that the serial number sticker is missing is kind of irrelevant, doesn't mean the scope is "sterile", the sticker might just be missing or may have been removed by a previous owner who didn't want the serial number of the scope known because... well fill in the blank.

 

[Gabby]

Its a crappy pic but the glass is very clear

 

[Col. Colt]

Not a standard ARTII reticle. (sp) I don't see the "dots" usually seen for 30 and 60 inches, and I never saw an ART II with the upper "Redfield" style stadia wires. CC

 

[2336USMC]

Its a crappy pic but the glass is very clear

Interesting, the early 1977 ART II, upper scope in my post above, has that same reticle. I don't have enough information to say whether that reticle was optional for civilian/hunting use, or whether all of the early ART IIs had that reticle. The upper stadia lines used for ranging appear similar to the previous AR TEL and the Redfield system.

All of the later ART IIs I have seen have the standard military reticle that looks like this (from the Leatherwood user's manual):

In the military reticle, the thick portion of the bars equals 1 meter when ranging. When a 1 meter object appears the same size as the bar, the range in meters is read right off the power ring on the scope. If the power ring is locked to the range cam in autorange mode, at that time the cam will also have elevated the scope tube to the correct elevation zero.

It would be interesting to know whether that Redfield-style reticle was early standard and later replaced by the Army-style, or whether it was an optional feature...​

Edit: Leatherwood's patent submitted in 1968 and awarded in 1970 shows those same Redfield-style ranging stadia lines in the patent application. It may have been early standard. I wonder which reticle the Israelis got? Anybody have an IDF-marked ART II?

It appears to me that in the early years of ART II production, the scope design was still evolving, but by the time the US Army started buying them in 1981 the design had matured to the essentially "final" design usually seen. It's possible that some of the final design changes were actually requested by the Army during testing. Not enough info...

 

[Gabby]

Thanx everyone for all the info and sharing. I now have an idea what it is. It just baffled me that no sn was engraved. Stickers are cheaper I suppose. Now I just have to figure out a fair price for it. Of course human nature says get the most $$, but I dont want to be taken either.

Suppose somebody could re-anodize it and sorta have a clone scope, but thats a bit of work.