[umbys]

Yesterday I went to the range with my Bula XM21 and shot my second batch of reloads. Since these actually grouped much better than my first batch, I now have to understand what is going on with my loads because it does not make much sense to me. 40.5gr and 40.7gr grouped fairly well except the fliers and starts to open at 41 gr and 41.3 is like a shotgun, but then 41.5 grain grouped fairly well too. Its a bit confusing because I thought since 41.3gr did not group well than 41.5 gr would group like crap as well.. Which gr load should I stick with? I`m just trying to find what load my m1a likes the best. Thanks !

Midwayusa Blem 168gr Bullet
2015 Lake City Brass
CCI #34
Headspaced to 1.628
Brass Trim = 2.005
OAL = 2.82in
IMR 4895 from left to right in the picture (40.5gr,40.7gr,41gr,41.3gr,41.5)

 

[commostud]

You stick with what works for rifle. I would use your last load. I learned early in life when my dad found a load, you stick with it. We would load 10 fee load and shoot them. Then I pulled apart everything he did not like. My old man was the best shot I have ever seen.

So load up another test batch of the last load. This is just to verify your findings. Then stick with it.

 

[POLACK]

http://www.zediker.com/downloads/14_loading.pdf
http://bearblain.com/Service Rifle Loadings.html
http://annealeez.ddns.net/
http://m14forum.com/ammunition/79844-m80.html

IMR RIFLE DATA
NEVER Exceed the Loads Listed Here
308 Winchester
Cartridge Information
Case:
Winchester
Barrel Length:
24"
Twist:
1:12"
Trim Length:
2.005"
Primer:
Federal 210M

308 Winchester Cartridge Load Data
Starting Loads
Maximum Loads
Bullet Weight (Gr.) Powder Bullet Dia. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure
110 GR. BAR XFB IMR 4320 .308" 2.800" 46.8 2918 41,200 PSI 52.0C 3220 53,700 PSI
110 GR. BAR XFB IMR 4064 .308" 2.800"
45.0
2930 41,100 PSI 49.5C 3235 53,400 PSI
110 GR. BAR XFB IMR 4895 .308" 2.800" 45.0 2916 40,200 PSI 50.7C 3263 54,200 PSI
110 GR. BAR XFB IMR 3031 .308" 2.800" 43.0 3040 44,200 PSI 47.5C 3350 59,100 PSI
125 GR. SIE SP IMR 4320 .308" 2.700" 48.7 2952 46,400 PSI 53.0C 3167 55,200 PSI
125 GR. SIE SP IMR 4064 .308" 2.700" 46.0 2891 42,500 PSI 50.1C 3119 52,100 PSI
125 GR. SIE SP IMR 4895 .308" 2.700" 48.0 2969 45,600 PSI 51.8C 3185 55,200 PSI
125 GR. SIE SP IMR 3031 .308" 2.700" 43.2 2866 40,200 PSI 48.0C 3194 58,100 PSI
130 GR. SPR HP IMR 4320 .308" 2.615" 46.8 2819 44,100 PSI 52.0C 3140 59,600 PSI
130 GR. SPR HP IMR 4064 .308" 2.615" 45.0 2809 43,600 PSI 49.5C 3036 52,300 PSI
130 GR. SPR HP IMR 4895 .308" 2.615" 45.9 2867 44,500 PSI 51.0C 3153 57,800 PSI
130 GR. SPR HP IMR 3031 .308" 2.615" 42.0 2827 42,600 PSI 46.7C 3130 59,800 PSI
140 GR. BAR XBT IMR 4320 .308" 2.800" 45.5 2776 46,200 PSI 50.2C 3025 59,800 PSI
140 GR. BAR XBT IMR 4064 .308" 2.800" 43.7 2750 44,500 PSI 48.5C 3011 58,000 PSI
140 GR. BAR XBT IMR 4895 .308" 2.800" 44.2 2783 46,100 PSI 48.0C 3016 57,800 PSI
140 GR. BAR XBT IMR 3031 .308" 2.800" 40.0 2727 44,800 PSI 43.8C 2954 56,900 PSI
150 GR. NOS BT IMR 4320 .308" 2.800" 44.1 2658 44,600 PSI 49.0C 2936 59,800 PSI
150 GR. NOS BT IMR 4064 .308" 2.800" 43.0 2663 44,700 PSI 47.7C 2903 57,100 PSI
150 GR. NOS BT IMR 4895 .308" 2.800" 42.6 2631 42,300 PSI 47.3C 2920 57,700 PSI
150 GR. NOS BT IMR 3031 .308" 2.800" 40.2 2658 44,300 PSI 43.5C 2881 59,200 PSI
155 GR. SIE HPBT IMR 4320 .308" 2.775" 44.0 2622 44,800 PSI 48.5C 2875 58,400 PSI
155 GR. SIE HPBT IMR 4064 .308" 2.775" 43.0 2602 42,900 PSI 47.5C 2871 56,500 PSI
155 GR. SIE HPBT IMR 4895 .308" 2.775" 43.5 2664 45,100 PSI 47.5C 2897 58,200 PSI
155 GR. SIE HPBT IMR 3031 .308" 2.775" 39.5 2594 43,400 PSI 43.2C 2832 58,500 PSI
165 GR. HDY SP IMR 4320 .308" 2.750" 43.0 2536 46,900 PSI 46.5C 2730 58,400 PSI
165 GR. HDY SP IMR 4064 .308" 2.750" 42.0 2554 47,700 PSI 46.3C 2767 59,700 PSI
165 GR. HDY SP IMR 4895 .308" 2.750" 42.7 2584 49,200 PSI 45.5C 2745 58,800 PSI
165 GR. HDY SP IMR 3031 .308" 2.750" 39.1 2537 49,600 PSI 41.6 2697 59,800 PSI
168 GR. SIE HPBT IMR 4320 .308" 2.800" 41.5 2463 43,800 PSI 46.0 2733 59,300 PSI
168 GR. SIE HPBT IMR 4064 .308" 2.800" 41.5 2518 43,800 PSI 45.9C 2766 58,800 PSI
168 GR. SIE HPBT IMR 4895 .308" 2.800" 41.0 2447 39,700 PSI 45.4C 2758 58,000 PSI
168 GR. SIE HPBT IMR 3031 .308" 2.800" 39.0 2507 43,900 PSI 42.0 2710 58,900 PSI
175 GR. SIE HPBT IMR 4320 .308" 2.800" 42.0 2471 44,000 PSI 45.7C 2687 57,600 PSI
175 GR. SIE HPBT IMR 4064 .308" 2.800" 41.5 2500 45,200 PSI 45.6C 2728 59,500 PSI
175 GR. SIE HPBT IMR 4895 .308" 2.800" 41.0 2463 42,800 PSI 45.0C 2704 57,800 PSI
175 GR. SIE HPBT IMR 3031 .308" 2.800" 38.0 2427 42,000 PSI 41.3 2653 59,100 PSI
180 GR. SPR SP IMR 4320 .308" 2.800" 41.0 2407 43,500 PSI 45.4C 2665 57,900 PSI
180 GR. SPR SP IMR 4064 .308" 2.800" 40.7 2445 44,100 PSI 45.2C 2683 58,200 PSI
180 GR. SPR SP IMR 4895 .308" 2.800" 40.5 2439 43,800 PSI 44.7C 2674 58,700 PSI
180 GR. SPR SP IMR 3031 .308" 2.800" 37.0 2372 43,300 PSI 40.6 2594 58,000 PSI
190 GR. HDY HPBT IMR 4320 .308" 2.740" 41.0 2430 50,700 PSI 43.7C 2566 58,800 PSI
190 GR. HDY HPBT IMR 4064 .308" 2.740" 39.4 2365 47,800 PSI 43.7C 2569 59,100 PSI
190 GR. HDY HPBT IMR 4895 .308" 2.740" 40.0 2363 46,000 PSI 43.9C 2571 59,100 PSI
190 GR. HDY HPBT IMR 3031 .308" 2.740" 36.0 2273 43,800 PSI 39.6C 2483 57,700 PSI
200 GR. SFT SP IMR 4320 .308" 2.700" 38.3 2222 44,900 PSI 42.5C 2427 56,600 PSI
200 GR. SFT SP IMR 4064 .308" 2.700" 39.0 2268 46,100 PSI 42.5C 2466 58,400 PSI
200 GR. SFT SP IMR 4895 .308" 2.700" 40.0 2302 47,500 PSI 43.2C 2476 59,000 PSI
200 GR. SFT SP IMR 3031 .308" 2.700" 36.0 2219 46,100 PSI 39.5C 2410 59,200 PSI
C = Compressed Charge
* Max loads that show an asterisk following the "C" for compressed load will not fit with standard IMR7828. Reduce by 4%.

Reply Reply to All Forward More

 

[Phil “Murphy” McGrath]

Yesterday I went to the range with my Bula XM21 and shot my second batch of reloads. Since these actually grouped much better than my first batch, I now have to understand what is going on with my loads because it does not make much sense to me. 40.5gr and 40.7gr grouped fairly well except the fliers and starts to open at 41 gr and 41.3 is like a shotgun, but then 41.5 grain grouped fairly well too. Its a bit confusing because I thought since 41.3gr did not group well than 41.5 gr would group like crap as well.. Which gr load should I stick with? I`m just trying to find what load my m1a likes the best. Thanks !

Midwayusa Blem 168gr Bullet
2015 Lake City Brass
CCI #34
Headspaced to 1.628
Brass Trim = 2.005
OAL = 2.82in
IMR 4895 from left to right in the picture (40.5gr,40.7gr,41gr,41.3gr,41.5)

Simple, here is the deal the lower power but accurate ammo is in the low node and the 41.5 load is in the higher node.

For general plinking or fun Matches the lower accurate ammo will work, when your shooting the full distance or past 200yds run the 41.5 load as it will have too cover the added distance.

 

[colt100]

I normally just use what is most accurate. Load up a few more test loads of the two most accurate loads and see if one shoots better. Then you can pick the one that's most accurate. I don't shoot competition as there are none around me I'm aware of but I plink a lot. You'll have to decide what you are going to use the load for and load accordingly. you could also borrow a chronograph and see which load is more consistent. A lot of my flyers I contribute to me. Good luck

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[nf1e]

What Phil said.
Personally I would find some 210M primers , better bullets and enjoy the improvement in your groups.

What barrel, stock and optics are you using? What distance were these target shot at?

Nice to see another CT XM21 user.

Semper Fi
ArtB

 

[11e40]

I have found that bullet type often times is more important than powder type & load. hth. you might try a better bullet.

 

[Bill3508]

Are you brass all sorted by weight? If not it's just chasing the rabbit.

 

[umbys]

Are you brass all sorted by weight? If not it's just chasing the rabbit.

Yes I am but I sorted the brass in groups of 5 and shot 10 rounds so that maybe a factor.

 

[nf1e]

Are you brass all sorted by weight? If not it's just chasing the rabbit.

In a gas gun, sorting brass has very little effect at shorter ranges.

 

[umbys]

What Phil said.
Personally I would find some 210M primers , better bullets and enjoy the improvement in your groups.

What barrel, stock and optics are you using? What distance were these target shot at?

Nice to see another CT XM21 user.

Semper Fi
ArtB

I`m running bula std weight 19.25", USGI big red, SWFA 3-9 HD and targets where at 100 yards.

 

[KurtC]

Your rifle seems to like the hotter load, although 41.5 is still pretty tame. I would continue your ladder chart up to 42 and see if the groups continue to shrink.

Keep in mind that if you change bullets, you have to start all over again.

 

[3Gunnah]

If your gun does not shoot 41.5 IMR 4895 with a 168..........time for a new gun!!GI2

 

[Thedutchman]

If it doesn't shoot 39.0 -39.5 grains of 3031....well, maybe it's only Art's and My guns that like 3031.
41.5 grains of 4064 shoot gooderr than 4895 in my rifles. Don't know why.
I like Hornady bullets.

Hey, anyone ever tried IMR4895 in a 6.5 CM?

 

[charlie98]

I have found that bullet type often times is more important than powder type & load. hth. you might try a better bullet.

As an arbitrary experiment, I switched my standard bullet (Nosler 168 BTHP) with a Sierra Match King, running IMR4895... my groups tightened up, not by much, but even I noticed a difference in my Socom16.

I quit the Ultimate Accuracy Chase many years ago, if the load I've worked up shows acceptable accuracy for what I want it to do, then I'm happy, call it a day, and crack open a beer.

OP, I would continue with your load development... I would load some more 41.5grn loads, and maybe 1 or 2 steps higher just to see if there isn't some more obvious improvement to be had. I would also reverse your testing... run the higher loads first, and then back down... to make sure a warming barrel didn't affect your test results, too.

 

[Pvt. Joker]

I'm using 39.0 grains of 4895, LC case, CCI primer, Sierra 168 HPBT at 100 yards off the bench and getting a bit better group like the last one on the right.

I have a 1962 SA chromelined barrel on mine, no match type barrel.

My other M14 used 41.5 grains and would shoot good groups up to about 250 yards........................but that was about 8 years ago before my eyes started getting bad.


My advice is like the other folks here, once you find one that works, forget the other ones. Be like that other fellas dad , stay with the one that works !

 

[nf1e]

I`m running bula std weight 19.25", USGI big red, SWFA 3-9 HD and targets where at 100 yards.

I don't know how many rnds have gone through your barrel. I found with mine that after a couple hundred things tightened up dramatically.
Keep at it and enjoy your Bula.
ArtB

 

[umbys]

I don't know how many rnds have gone through your barrel. I found with mine that after a couple hundred things tightened up dramatically.
Keep at it and enjoy your Bula.
ArtB

It only has less then 200 rounds, so we shall see. Definitely will continue to find the accuracy nodes.


Thank you everyone for the responses. I will continue my journey to find my go to load. More experimenting will be going on in the future!

 

[Bill3508]

In a gas gun, sorting brass has very little effect at shorter ranges.

Everything matters. Just depends how good you want your groups to be, or just how much you want to eliminate the ammo question from shooting ability. He's also trying to differentiate between .2 grain loads in a gas gun, which will be just as difficult to see results from and makes it even more important that the rest of the process is taken out of the equation.

 

[stripper clip]

As other guys have said, I agree completely with borrowing a chronograph and also trying some first run bullets. Blems are blems for a reason. A chronograph will really tell you what's going on with the overall consistency of a load and you can also compare that with your actual group size on paper. Personally, I would not be concerned about differentiating between tenths of a grain in powder charge difference until you have first shot groups in .5 grain increases. Furthermore, even though each rifle is it's own unique animal in what it prefers, I have found that middle of the road powder charges generally provide the best accuracy for me. 41.5 grains of IMR 4895 has been known to generally produce excellent results, although out of your specific rifle it might be different.