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Discussion Starter #1
I have been considering Tubb's Final Finish on my SA NM and SA "loaded" M1As. The "loaded" has a stainless steel "air gauged NM medium contour barrel". This product is recommended to smooth barrel bores to increase accuracy and make cleaning easier.

Does anyone have familiarity with this product? For my type of barrels, should I use all of the bullets provided with each kit or just the last thee sets of bullets #3, #4 and #5 (finest grit). Or, should I just pass on this product.

Does anyone know what "air gauged" means? Is this the same as hand lapped? Or, how are they different?

I wanted to ask before buying and trying. A rebarrel can get a bit expensive so, I don't want to ruin anything. But I do want the best that I can provide for my M1A's.

Any help, advise or assistance will be greatly appreciated.

Aloha and Best Wishes,

Tom O.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Add on Information

To All:

Sorry, I just wanted to add that I have printed all the material on the link: http://www.zediker.com/tubb/finalfinish.html, and will be reading like crazy.

But I have come to trust the folks in this forum as the "best" resource for matters pertaining to M14/M1A type firearms.

Hawk's post on inspecting your op rod if accuracy goes awry is the kind of information that I feel is invaluable to any M14/M1A owner. Who could ask for a better resource for information and advise.

Again, Aloha and Thank You,

Tom O.
 

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I haven't read the two files, but would think that this would not be a good idea to use on chrome lined barrels (of which yours is not). If I get the chance I will download the file and give them a look see 8)
 

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Discussion Starter #4
You're On IT!!!

Thanks again Hawk...

You're really on it. I appreciate the time you take to help "newbies" like me with our questions.

The Tubbs brochure says that his method only takes off a mere .0003 from the inner barrel. Does that sound right to you?

I was hoping someone else in this forum might have used Tubb's Final Finish and could give a first hand account of whether it worked or not.

I do know that this NOT a substitute for human mechanics (breathing, sights and trigger squeeze) or plain ole practice. But I do want my rifles as accurate as possible.

Aloha and Thanks Again!

Tom O.
 

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Tom, .003 is a little less than the thickness of a human hair if that puts it in perspective for you. Just food for thought.....a .22 conversion kit for the AR15 allows the use of the .22(0) round in a .223 barrel. With the conversion kit, accuracy is ok up to about 100yds, then starts to wain. I don't know for sure if it would be the same by using the "final Finish" or not, but it's something to ponder. JMHO Hawk
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Human Hair

Hawk,

If I read the article that Tubb provides on-line, he claims his polish only takes off <3 ten thousandths of an inch. (I think it is less than the diameter of a human hair).

Until, I get more definitive information on this product, I think I will stay away from it and just leave "good enough" alone.

Thanks for the follow-up. I check the forum nitely and look forward to hearing from you and the others. Unfortunately, when I am on line, you folks are sleeping.

Aloha,

Tom O.
 

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Tom, You are correct, the amount removed is .0003 not .003. The equates to less than 1/10 the size of a human hair. Probably not consequential. However, unless you have some firsthand reports, as you were hoping for, I would agree to just "stay away from it and just leave "good enough" alone". HTH Hawk
 

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Tom

I have tried the Final Finish on my M1A.
Did it last weekend. I have not shot for groups yet.
I will let you know how it works out.

Before I used them I talked to the guy who makes them. I also was curious about whether I need to use just the #3, #4, & #5 (finer grits). He asked me if I had a custom barrel, I told him no it was a new firearm with the standard barrel from Springfield. He said to use all the different grits.
You would not use the first two grits only if you had a custom barrel.

I also told him that I was going to use it in my M1A and he said that it would not be a problem with this weapon.

Once I get back to the range and shoot some groups I will let you know how it came out.

By the way how does that #1 Seminole stock look. The #2 that is on mine looks good.

Take Care.
RG45
(server won't let me login right now)
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Seminole Project

RG45:

I can't wait to hear the result of your Tubb's Test! I ordered a batch and will also follow suit if your results turn out well.

As for the Seminole... Today, I just bought a new SA Loaded M1A to put in her. I think I spent a bit much for the rifle but I was really itchy to get this Seminole project on the road.

I am think of using a reflex sighting system on an ARMS mount. I wil also put a Harris bipod stud in her in case I want to use a bipod on the bench. I hope to have some pictures soon. How about your Seminole, do ya got any pics yet? Shoot some at the range, I would love to see what other shooting ranges look like.

This will be my third M1A. I'm stoked because I just got it! "Different" in the BR.com forum has a collection I only dream about. One day, I'll catch up. Speaking of BR.com, did you see SixTGunr's post on "NOT BAD"? He posted some pics of my Sage project (in the interim and final shots).

Really looking forward to hearing about your testing. Thanks for your input, it is greatly appreciated. :lol:

Aloha and Best Wishes,

Tom O.
 

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Tom

I went to the range this morning with my son.
I think that everyone else had the same idea, the range was packed.

I shot my M1A on the 25 yd range to get it on paper. Then moved over to the 50 yd range. The results this week are going to be based on the 50 since I could not get over to the 100 yd range today.

This will be the first time that I shot it after I did the Final Finish.

I had a 5 shot group of 1.612" with a called flyer. Without the flyer and using a 4 shot group it was 0.757". I know that it is only the 50 yd range but I think that the gun can shoot better than me.

Then I started to adust the scope and just shot to have fun.
Hopefully next week I can get to the 100 yd range.

I have already loaded up the Final Finish rounds for my Rem 700 .308 and will shoot it in a couple of weeks.

Take care
Roy G.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for the Follow Up!

RG45:

Thanks for the follow up report. I can't wait to hear how you did on the 100 yd range. Was it easier to clean after using FF?

How about the bore... Was it shiney and smooth?

I just received my TFF from Brownells and ready to give it a try but I am still a bit apprehensive. I too went to the range this weekend to measure my group sizes before using TFF. My groups were really bad. At the end of the day, I was going to check the rod guide but decided to check all visible areas first. Sure enough, my gas cylinder plug came loose but it was too late to continue testing. So its back to the range for me as well.

Hope to hear from you and your son soon.

Aloha and Best Wishes,

Tom O.
 

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Tom

I went to the range last night with a friend of mine. I was going to help him shoot in his new 7 Mag. So I took my 308 bolt action and the M1A.

I leaned my rifles on the bumper of my truck to help him get his stuff out of his truck. Next thing I know both of my rifles are lying on the ground. :cry:
I have NEVER dropped a rifle before. :oops:
Luckly there were not marks on the guns. I wish that I could say the same thing about the scopes. My bolt gun has a Leupold on it. The M1A has a Springfield scope (the one that you get with the "Scope out" promotion).

After we got setup on the bench and shot, well the Leuopld was way off, but I walked it back to zero fairly easily. :)

The Springfield scope was not so luckly. There were no marks on the scope, however the cross hairs in the Springfield had moved up toward the left and were canted. I tried adjusting with the windage and elevation, to see if if would possibly move, no such luck. I was extremely disappointed with the scope.

So long story short, I still don't have a range report for you on the grouping on my M1A yet.

Roy
 

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Wow!

RG45:

I just completed a reply to you but it disappeared. So if you see two, well... 8O

Anyway, that short story was not the kind I expected to hear. I know how it feels when "murphy" comes around. :cry:

Do you think that the SA scope is repairable? I hope that SA will be able to replace the damaged scope. Is the warranty the same as their other scopes (Lifetime, as long as you are the original owner)? I hope so.

If they will not replace the scope, repair it or if you are not the original owner and wish to replace it, I have a solution. I have just purchased a new M1A and have NOT taken advantage of the "special offer" yet, and I will be obliged to extend it to you if you want. I also have the "loaded" coupon that I was going to buy some stuff off of and I do not think that will interfere with the "special offer". :lol:

Let me know if I can help. Since I just purchased the rifle (9-27-2002), I think this allows quite a leeway before making a decision.

Aloha and Best Wishes,

Tom O.
 

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Tom

I really appreciate the offer. I am the original owner and the scope is less than 1 month old. This is only the second time the rifle was shot with the scope on it. I will contact Springfield and see what they will do. Then I will figure out what to do.

I have an older scope setting around that I will mount on the M1A and shoot for groups. This will get me by until I find out what I can get done on the other one.

Thanks again!
Have a good day.
Roy
 

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Discussion Starter #15
OK.

Hi Roy (RG45):

I reread the "special offer" and it expired on October 1, 2002. Since I bought my new M1A on September 27, 2002, I think the offer should still be good. So I can help that way if needed.

I also have the "loaded" coupon which I have not used yet, if you want to buy something off of that, let me know. I will probably put an order in early November, unless I hear from you sooner and if you need anything.

How do you like the 3rd Gen SA mount? Does it feel solid? I have one but have not mounted it. I opted for the ARMS #18 because of the look and feel.

Aloha to you and your son, happy shooting! Be safe...

Tom O.
 

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Tom

I appreciate the offer, but I will try and get Springfield to repair this one. If not then I will put on a Leupold when I can afford it.

The 3rd Gen mount feels solid and can still use the iron sights if necessary.

Tom I really appreciate your help.

I will let you know when I finally get to shoot again.

Take care.
Roy
 

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Tom

I went shooting again today. The old scope that I put on the M1A would not hold center (I guess that is why it was not on a gun in the first place).

I did use the Final Finsh on my bolt gun so I can report on that one for now.

I am shooting a Rem 700 308 heavy barrel, with my reloads.
After I shot the Final Finish and clean the gun throughly and let it cool down then I shot for groups.

The before:
I shot .627" group at 100 yds.

After the Final Finish:
I shot .487" group at 100 yds.

Is all of this Final Finish? Not sure I may also have been a little more at ease today compared to last time, but did make it a little eaiser to clean the barrel.

I will be using it on my 223 also.
Hope this helps.
Take Care
Roy
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Final Finish...

RG45:

Sounds like a plan. Just holler if I can help any. The infomation on the your groups from the Rem 700 really helps me. At least your groups were as good if not better after using the FF bullets. 1/2 MOA is really awesome groups in anyone's book but .63 groups are nothing to sneeze at in the first place. The ease of cleaning I can also now testify to. But, I was afraid I might have messed up today. This is my story...

I recently received my first order of Tubb's Final Finish while we were corresponding. I made up a batch to use in one of my Loaded M1A's. Since it shot, 1.5" or greater groups, I decided to use all compounds (1-5).

I also had a chance to go to the range today with the specific intention of testing the Final Finish. But because I was running late, I did not shoot for size before the FF bullets. At the range, I performed the procedures that came with the FF bullets. Shoot 10 then clean. Each set of 10, I had at least one "fail to fire" bullet. I can only blame myself. I might have contaminated my Mil-Spec CCI primers (they have never failed before). Anyway, I continued using 8-9 bullets of each compound and cleaning. But by the time, I finished the last set, it was a bit late. Guys at the range kept stopping by to chat. When I finally got to shoot my Mil-Surp Port ammo, my groups were NOT impressive. About the same as before. I thought "oh my gawd, I should have waited for Roy's response. Did I mess up somehow? So I checked everything out on my rifle and noticed that the gas plug was a might loose. But like an idiot, murphy strikes again, I left my uni wrench at home. So I packed up and left for home.

At home, I did a really good cleaning. I used Butch's Bore Shine, JB's paste, then Butch's Bore Shine again. I noticed it was really easy to clean as compared to before. So this was ONE good thing about FF. Well, I also inspected the bore and it was SUPER shiny. Maybe two good things.

I hope the 1.5-2.0" groups were due to the loose gas plug on the rifle and not something that I messed up. Next week will tell. NOW, I have to go to the range next week to see. This week, I know, will kill me waiting for Sunday.

Questions: What load did you use for your bullets. I used 36.0 gr. of IMR 4895, military brass and mil. spec. CCI primers. I only had load data for 180 gr. and 200 gr. bullets, so I guessed and split the difference.

Do you think that NOT using every round in each set affected this process?

Anyway, thanks for the information it was a great help. Till next week.

Aloha and Best Wishes,

Tom O.
 
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