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Discussion Starter #1
For you new Members that want to tighten up your groups,, this is a good place to start.

There is one common place in all the M1A's that will determine how accurate the Rifle will shoot. All else aside, the Stock Ferrule and Front band relationship will either make or break all efforts to keep the fired rounds in a respectable group. This relationship of parts applies rather you shoot India surplus or Fed Gold Medal, just do not expect the former to ever challenge the latter.

All M1A owners are sooner or later going to tackle the Gas Cylinder and Front Band, even if only to clean the Gas System. In time, being successful, you can remove the Flash Suppressor with confidence also. Those that want to add the proper shim/shims and peen the splines for both the GC and the FS, add this extra work to your efforts..

When the reassembly takes place do not lock the Gas Cylinder Lock up all the way. leave it just loose enough so the Front Band is free. Polish the bottom of the stock ferrule where it contacts the lip of the FB. add a little lube to this polished surface. Put the FS on and return the rifle into the stock. If you do not have any front end draw pressure, place something under the barrel in the stock channel close behind the back end of the GC that is tall enough to touch the barrel and strong enough to hold the receiver heel about 1/4 to 1/2 inch off the stock. Now hold down on the heel and lock up your trigger housing in place.. The FB and the Stock Ferule should now be under some amount of pressure because you have bent the barrel over a fulcum {spl**.. That pressure will center the FB to the SF, Now lock down the gas cylinder lock into final position, drop in the Piston and plug, remove the item you bent the barrel over and reassemble and things will improve. Take Pride in your accomplishment. Art
 

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*Fulcrum*

would the proper amount of shims be enough that the gas lock tightens at 5 O'clock and wrenched down at 6 for gas plug etc. ?
how does this effect the alignment of the gas port holes and proper gas pressure?

Thanks for this and ALL advise is definitely appreciated!
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Selecting the proper thickness shim/shims.

Before the splines are peened the GC and lock should be put on, screw the cyl lock on until stops. Then back it off until it is at the 5:00 or 5:30 position. I prefer 5:30. Tap the GC forward up against the front band. Using a drill bit that will fit into the GC and up through the spindle into the barrel gas port, check for alignment. It requires at least 60% of the barrel gas port to function the action. The FB will probably be loose, the gap between the FB and the barrel shoulder it drives back against is a good indicator of the thickness of the shim needed or just a bit thicker.

Remove the GS and FB, slide the proper shim on and repeat the above, check for port alignment, it should be OK. Now remove all and peen for final installation. Art
 

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Thanks for the info Art. I hope someday you put some pics up of this stuff. Its a little confusing for me anyway without pics. I did shim the GC. It tightened up my groups. I would like to try and tackle the trigger group. There seems to be just a little too much slack in it for me.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Someday Pitcures, maybe..

Doing trigger work is not difficult, before you start, study the movement to understand how things are working. There is very little you can damage if you stay light handed. Art
 

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For you new Members that want to tighten up your groups,, this is a good place to start.

There is one common place in all the M1A's that will determine how accurate the Rifle will shoot. All else aside, the Stock Ferrule and Front band relationship will either make or break all efforts to keep the fired rounds in a respectable group. This relationship of parts applies rather you shoot India surplus or Fed Gold Medal, just do not expect the former to ever challenge the latter.

All M1A owners are sooner or later going to tackle the Gas Cylinder and Front Band, even if only to clean the Gas System. In time, being successful, you can remove the Flash Suppressor with confidence also. Those that want to add the proper shim/shims and peen the splines for both the GC and the FS, add this extra work to your efforts..

When the reassembly takes place do not lock the Gas Cylinder Lock up all the way. leave it just loose enough so the Front Band is free. Polish the bottom of the stock ferrule where it contacts the lip of the FB. add a little lube to this polished surface. Put the FS on and return the rifle into the stock. If you do not have any front end draw pressure, place something under the barrel in the stock channel close behind the back end of the GC that is tall enough to touch the barrel and strong enough to hold the receiver heel about 1/4 to 1/2 inch off the stock. Now hold down on the heel and lock up your trigger housing in place.. The FB and the Stock Ferule should now be under some amount of pressure because you have bent the barrel over a fulcum {spl**.. That pressure will center the FB to the SF, Now lock down the gas cylinder lock into final position, drop in the Piston and plug, remove the item you bent the barrel over and reassemble and things will improve. Take Pride in your accomplishment. Art
I would think something touching the barrel would be bad ? I don't have much pressure as the heel is pretty close, what would be good to use, I assume you leave it in place

Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Something behind the Gas Cylinder.

What ever you use is removed, in this business, this is called a Standoff Devise. It is only temporary, used only to lift the barrel for this particular service or for glass bedding. Art
 

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Discussion Starter #8
When using a Stand off devise.

I would think something touching the barrel would be bad ? I don't have much pressure as the heel is pretty close, what would be good to use, I assume you leave it in place

I have a special piece of material cut into two parts, this allows me to add shims between the two parts to get the
height I want. It is removed before final assembly, You are correct about leaving something in the barrel channel that would contact the barrel during firing, that would be a big problem, the rod would have no place to function. Art
 

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You may or may not be able to tell from the pics what I have, as you can see the ferrule touches the hook ? on the bottom of the FB but their is a gap between the face of the ferrule and FB, the GC is shimmed and times at the position shown and then I tighten it the rest of the way around after I get her locked in, when I set her in the stock the heel has very little to no gap I also put some brass shim stock under the trigger to help on the lockup as their seemed to not be alot of tension so after reading I am guessing this is not what I want and need to correct but not sure how can you explain it to this kid who rode the short bus

Thanks Art











 

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Discussion Starter #10
You are doing fine.

Looked over the pictures and: The receiver heel gap is a result of the stock needing to be relieve forward of the heel, this is a job for someone with experience however.

The gap between the FB and SF is as it should be, so you are OK there.

The pic of the front of your stock shows the Gas Cyl is hitting the inside of the stock, the entire area inside th stock around the entire gas system should be cleared for at least .030", this you can do with a round file. The Metal Ferule itself needs to be filed away. Have someone post a pic of a Ferrule that has this mod, someone will help you in this matter.

Stay with it. Art
 

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Looked over the pictures and: The receiver heel gap is a result of the stock needing to be relieve forward of the heel, this is a job for someone with experience however.

The gap between the FB and SF is as it should be, so you are OK there.

The pic of the front of your stock shows the Gas Cyl is hitting the inside of the stock, the entire area inside th stock around the entire gas system should be cleared for at least .030", this you can do with a round file. The Metal Ferule itself needs to be filed away. Have someone post a pic of a Ferrule that has this mod, someone will help you in this matter.

Stay with it. Art
I am sure I can file around the ferule and get this done but I am going to show my ignorance by asking how tough is it to relieve material forward of the heel to give me the gap and is the gap supposed to be their after the trigger is locked up ?

Thanks
 

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Art, can you just scribe around the receiver and then use a Dremel to cut out material until it's all flat from the heel to the receiver ring area of the stock?

Can you use some kind of skim coat of something to refinish the stock material so that it has the same finish as the rest of the stock?
 

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I would love to see a pic of what this relief looks like as I may try it or is their someone near me in NE Houston that can show me how to do this
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I think I follow you...

I am sure I can file around the ferule and get this done but I am going to show my ignorance by asking how tough is it to relieve material forward of the heel to give me the gap and is the gap supposed to be their after the trigger is locked up ?

Thanks
The gap is not suppose to be there after lock up. The gap is there because the Wings of the rec. are riding high on one or both sides of the stock, most common in Commecial stocks. It is not difficult to correct. But study the following before you start, have a clear understanding.

This is how I would do it: Measure from the rear of the rec. heel along one side or the other of the stock towards the front end of the rec. at 11/4 ", mark that spot. The stock material, wood or fiberglass,from that spot to the back edge of the stock liner, or to !/4" behind the recoil legs of the rec. has to be cut/filed down, so when the rec. is in the stock and locked up with the Trigger housing you can see light under the rec and the stock from both sides, you should be able to see light right out the opposite side. How much of a gap is enough, at least .015", about a business card thickness. I am saying, the stock should not touch the Rec. between these two points.. It touches around the Heel and from the spot 11/4" forward to a spot just behind the back edge of the stock liner... It is this area that usually causes the lifted heel. That will send everybody to the Brier Patch. I hope you understand this, some day I hope to be able to do pictures.

If the heel is still off the rec. you will have to file very carefully both sides of the stock where the rec. wings rest on top of the stock, try to keep the angle, I think it is 17 degrees. File and check, a little at a time. I'm doing my best here, if you are not clear we can try again. Art
 

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I think I've got it;
To get contact in the region of the receiver's heel
  • Make sure you have stock clearance from a point 1.25" forward of the receiver heel to the back of the liner.
  • If you have that but the heel still doesn't contact correctly then take a little off the stock under the receiver wings at about a 17 degree angle.

OK, so let's say you had to remove material from under the receiver wings, wouldn't that make the receiver drop lower in the stock and result in the trigger group not properly contacting the stock under the trigger group's wings? If so then what is the best way to fix that problem?
 

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Art we need to all chip in and get you a camera so you can post pics for us slow people..... LOL , anyway this is what I have done hopefully have not done any damage

Front ferule has been relieved alot, actually now when I squeeze the handgard and stock together hard up front I can pull the bottom of the stock upward and create a gap between the FB lip and ferule and when i let go it returns back to touching, I can actually feel it hit the GC with the gap and it seems not to be touching when it sits on the FB lip now





Here is where I lightly sanded until i removed all the crinkle paint and alittle of the fiberglass:



Here is where the gap starts just with the receiver sitting in the stock now with no downward pressure





Here is where I sit with a gap having slight downard pressure on the heel, I have approx a .035 gap



And here I have the trigger group in and locked up and have a gap but not at the heel

 

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Discussion Starter #18
Removing stock material, wood or FG.

If a give amount of material is removed from under where the Rec wings would seat, the TH will be looser. Good question.. The result will be in having to bed the TH to get draw lock up. And that is something a lot of rifles need. Plus you get the experience of learning to do the job. It is far more important the receiver fit the upper side of the stock than a tight draw TG... You can always put shims under the TH bedding pads to correct too lose a Trigger housing. You can not do that to the receiver. Well, you can, but do not try it, it will stress the receiver.

I have a camera, need instruction how to get this stuff into the Computer and on to the FL..

I have created a monster here, if this issue is to have any chance to succeed, it is imperative that we all use the correct terms when naming the parts involved. Please take the time to do this so we can understand each other.

Some of you Members have done a good job removing the material around the GC, good work and being brave to attack your own stuff....Art
 

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You can always put shims under the TH bedding pads to correct too lose a Trigger housing. You can not do that to the receiver. Well, you can, but do not try it, it will stress the receiver.
Oops, I've done the shims under the receiver before, I guess I'll stop doing that little trick.
 

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Oops, I've done the shims under the receiver before, I guess I'll stop doing that little trick.
Yea, me too. Reason i started doing that was it is not supposed to hurt anything.
So far, my Scout shoots great like that. Anybody know what happens long term?


 
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