[EX UMBRIS]

Notice how the military is dusting off the M-14's and developing new cartridges like the 6.8SPC?

Back when the whiz-kids decided to go with the 5.56x45, the idea was that the round cause a casualty: Knock someone out of the fight and ideally a couple of his buddies would come to his aid and carry him off taking three people out of action.

The operators with whom I've talked to report that our new enemy isn't falling for the old doctrine. (As if any enemy ever followed our rules) Shoot one of them with a 5.56mm, and if you don't get a CNS hit, they will lay there and keep shooting back at you. As for his buddies coming to carry him away, forget it. They are bugging out or trying to find some other way to get to the 72 virgins.

Casualty causing rounds aren't cutting it anymore boys and girls. Our military is looking for something that kills (gasp!) or hits hard enough to take the fight out of the b/g these days.

 

[Chuck S]

Don't hold your breath. The XM8 is in 5.56mm.

-- Chuck

 

[GeoffM24]

It all depends on where you are.

In the Northeast for example rarely do you get a shot more then 50 yards MAYBE 75-100 while deer hunting. In the Rockies where you can see for miles you can get much longer shots.

I'd rather have a M4 in urban Irag but a M14 in the mountians of Afghanistan or deserts of Iraq.

 

[colt100]

I agree. It;s hard to beat an M16 for urban fighting. A three round burst to the chest at close distance is a great thing. Of course, If I HAD to choose one rifle for overall combat, it would be an M14, but the M16 has it's place also.

 

[Oxmix]

Let's see. M16, 30 round magazine 3 shot burst. M14, 20 round magazine in semi auto mode 1 shot per trigger pull. Based on the above information the M14 is capable of taking out tangos while using 1/3 the amount of ammo as the M16.

Regards

Ox

 

[rifledude]

According to the US ARMY's "Soldier Lessons Learned" report of operations in Iraq, the lowly 5.56 served its purpose admirably. Maybe I'm just gullable though to believe this report http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/2003/oif_lessons_peo.doc :mrgreen: I agree that for SOCOM tasks, the 308 is often the best cartridge though.

 

[6016mech]

M-4/M-16 or M-14???

Using some common sense here...5.56 x5-7 rds to "stop" your enemy or 7.62x51 x1 rd to "stop" your enemy??? I'm sure if it were my a** on the line, I'll take my -14 thank you very much! In my experience, the M4/M-16A2 makes a fine target/rat rifle, I wouldn't carry one into combat However, the 6.8 SPC is an interesting cartridge (115 gr .277 bullet leaving a 16" barrel @ 2600 fps :twisted: . All the gov't would have to do is buy uppers for existing rifles. But I think that would make to much sense in the aspect of cost effectiveness(a lot of us found out how the gov't operates & haven't forgotten) instead of developing a completely new weapons system.

 

[colt100]

You guys do realize that the 5.56 round can preform one shot stops...right?

For CQB, I would take the m16 and for general use, the M14. Use whatever you want...if it ever comes to that :roll: .

 

[ALS]

You guys do realize that the 5.56 round can preform one shot stops...right?

Ask the victims of the DC Snipers.
Also the M-14 can handle a little sand and still fire if not kept as clean as it should. That is the one little problem with the M-4's and the average soldier.

 

[Vet66]

Well, I wouldn't want to be downrange of either one. Shot placement
is all important....'nuff said. :wink:

 

[Zed Stewart]

The thing most fail to realize is that there are no "perfect" cartridges. Throughout modern warfare there have been a variety of small arms rounds varying from .30 carbine and .45 acp to .308/30-06. All fit into a niche. The hard part is finding one weapon system/cartridge combo that can be pressed into a majority of roles.

House-to-house fighting is best handled with an SMG sized weapon. 200 yards plus engagements call for a real rifle. It is a simple truth and fact of life. There is no "perfect" solution, only personal preference. It never hurts to have both kinds available and know how to use them all.

 

[colt100]

The thing most fail to realize is that there are no "perfect" cartridges. Throughout modern warfare there have been a variety of small arms rounds varying from .30 carbine and .45 acp to .308/30-06. All fit into a niche. The hard part is finding one weapon system/cartridge combo that can be pressed into a majority of roles.

House-to-house fighting is best handled with an SMG sized weapon. 200 yards plus engagements call for a real rifle. It is a simple truth and fact of life. There is no "perfect" solution, only personal preference. It never hurts to have both kinds available and know how to use them all.

+1

oh, BTW, I do own an M1a, 6 garands, M1 carbine, and an ar-15. I do like the garands/M1a system the best.

 

[WSAR15]

Are there any 6.8SPC in Irak? If so, who is using this round?

 

[bigstick61]

SpecOps. For evaluation purposes.

 

[the major]

The M-14 an't called a BATTLE RIFLE for no reason!!