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I'm using an arms 18 mount on the receiver. I wanted to mount the aimpoint as low as possible so I ordered these cheap 30mm aimpoint rings which I wasn't sure if they would work or not but surprisingly they were perfect. The amount of space between the aimpoint and the rail is about as thin as a piece of paper. The rings lack a quick release but that was an acceptable trade off to get it this low and it doesn't interfere with ejection View attachment 462208
View attachment 462209
View attachment 462207
Where did you get the rings? Thanks
 

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I've always found it interesting that those seeking low scope mounting tend toward the ARMS 18. While it does have the lowest rail position of any of the mounts, the scopes cannot be mounted any lower than the eye piece has clearance with the rear sight aperture. Scopes can'tbe mounted any power on the ARMS mount than they can on a Sadlak or similar Brookfield styles which are much better quality. Owners also report that the ARMS mount has a higher instance of brass impacts and jamming due to it's low rail position. The earlier ARMS 18 mount had an open rail which didn't have this problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
It works quite well for my setup with an aimpoint. I've read how some people have issues with the arms 18 interfering with ejection and causing malfunctions but with my setup that isn't an issue. I tested it thoroughly to make sure it was 100% reliable like I do with all my guns
 

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I know I've put this up before, it's a hammer out to 800 yards or so. View attachment 462740

I do wish McMillan was still making this stock. It folds on the left side and makes a nice short package. It's an LRB M25, serial number 10001, the first production M25 made. It was actually still in the prototype stage (the first five production M25 receivers were) and still has a scope mount groove on the left side, but no mount boss or screw hole. LRB also made a hand full of earlier M25 receiver prototypes and a couple with different rail attachment points. The barrel is a medium weight chrome lined Criterion. Some chrome lined barrels are quite accurate. The bipod is a Bobro which was copied by GGG. This version was used during Army trials of the FN SCAR 17. The scope is a TS12 from US Optics. I haven't had a chance to try out this scope yet. I did my original testing with a Leupold MK4.
I LOVE that Mac stock. Wish I had gotten one before it was to late. I got a M2A as the folders were no more. Nice rifle Ted!
 

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I started off with the goal of having a magnified optic and bought a vortex 1-6 (I think it was the strike eagle) but whenever I would shoot the battery compartment cap would fall off from the recoil. The first time it happened I thought maybe I just didn't have it on tight enough but then it happened the next time I took it out. The threads were such that after tightening it to certain point the threads would let go. Maybe it was just a defective unit but for an almost $400 optic that was unacceptable and thankfully big R refunded me for it even though it was was over the deadline for returning an item. That experience made me realize that getting a rugged scope with good glass is an expensive endeavor so I went with the trusted old aimpoint. If I need to take a precise shot at something at distance I have a scoped Tikka 270 that weighs less than my AR. I sighted the aimpoint in at 100 yards
vortex actually has one of the best warranties in the entire industry - essentially no questions asked, lifetime warranty, transferable. I sell their products and so have had to learn more about them than I ever cared to know, and I must say I was blown away. Your strike eagle was almost certainly a defective unit from the factory, and they would have gone above and beyond to rectify that issue. I own several of their optics, mounts, et al, including an LPVO or two (a viper PST gen II 1-6x24 w VMR optic on my
socom II, as well as a razor red dot with a 45 degree mount on the same gun). I was always an EOtech man, and always considered vortex as “the scope you get when you want something slightly better than the scope that was included with your savage axis.” Oh, how wrong I was. They have some serious high quality optics, the best warranty in the industry, and top notch customer service. I’m sorry to hear you had a poor experience with them, because I’m a relatively new convert and love telling people about them. That being said? You are right, for a $400 optic, that issue was unacceptable.
 

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I like Vortex too, they've got great designs, though there is a trade off in something when you get more and pay the same. Long zoom range, illumination, nice glass...

RAMMAC, who also sells Vortex, and last I heard had the same scope in question, and has found it to be just fine, pointed out that you can get good products made in China (and maybe that's changing, but it has been the 'go to' place for cheap manufacturing for awhile), but you have to do the QC. Do you trust the factory in China to do the QC? They can, and depending on your relationship, maybe they will, or they may just tell you they do, but so long as they keep getting the business, they don't seem to care (speaking broadly, I'm not indicting everything wholesale).

You can say you do QC in America (or wherever the company distribution is), but how thorough is that going to be, particularly when it's fully assembled? Turn the turrets? Check that the reticle is square? Are they going to check each and every one, or just a random couple in a batch and call it good? What might get checked likely isn't actually going to get checked with any kind of serious use to see how it handles recoil, heat.

More often than not, companies offer a great warranty, and if the QC wasn't done during the build, it gets done by the customer. Most buyers don't actually use their stuff a whole lot, so the cost of replacing products is a sliver of replacing all of the defective products, and replacing that one in X that actually does come in for warranty, is cheaper than paying somebody to thoroughly check all of the products that actually go out. Keep in mind, the rule of thumb is that the cost of manufacturing is usually 1/4 to 1/5 the actual selling price, because of the cost of overhead, distribution, and dealer margin keeps getting multiplied at each stage, so with relatively affordable equipment, a $500 scope (vortex seems to set their retail higher so that dealers can discount more ) is really a $400 selling price (on average, you might score a deal on closeouts), which means that it costs $80-$100 to make it, in which case, can you actually perform repairs on such a thing, given that your tech labor might be $30/hr, but given the overhead of running a company, the value of their time is in the 90-120 hr. range?

And if your warranty is great, that means you have to make all of your customers pay for the replacement scopes before they need them, by building that into the base manufacturing cost, which hopefully won't be many, but it contributes to the whole of thing...

Anyway, morning ramble. Time to do work. :)
 

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Sometimes when you post pictures of that abomination I think it looks awful, other times I look at it and think it's a neat space gun. I can't decide. Does this make me bi-polar?
Only your shrink can answer that for you.
 

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I like the look of that stock with the pith helmet. What manufacturer and model is that? Unfortinately, I can't run it just like that, living in the RPC, but I might be able to use it with a Magpul shotgun stock,,,
 

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I like Vortex too, they've got great designs, though there is a trade off in something when you get more and pay the same. Long zoom range, illumination, nice glass...

RAMMAC, who also sells Vortex, and last I heard had the same scope in question, and has found it to be just fine, pointed out that you can get good products made in China (and maybe that's changing, but it has been the 'go to' place for cheap manufacturing for awhile), but you have to do the QC. Do you trust the factory in China to do the QC? They can, and depending on your relationship, maybe they will, or they may just tell you they do, but so long as they keep getting the business, they don't seem to care (speaking broadly, I'm not indicting everything wholesale).

You can say you do QC in America (or wherever the company distribution is), but how thorough is that going to be, particularly when it's fully assembled? Turn the turrets? Check that the reticle is square? Are they going to check each and every one, or just a random couple in a batch and call it good? What might get checked likely isn't actually going to get checked with any kind of serious use to see how it handles recoil, heat.

More often than not, companies offer a great warranty, and if the QC wasn't done during the build, it gets done by the customer. Most buyers don't actually use their stuff a whole lot, so the cost of replacing products is a sliver of replacing all of the defective products, and replacing that one in X that actually does come in for warranty, is cheaper than paying somebody to thoroughly check all of the products that actually go out. Keep in mind, the rule of thumb is that the cost of manufacturing is usually 1/4 to 1/5 the actual selling price, because of the cost of overhead, distribution, and dealer margin keeps getting multiplied at each stage, so with relatively affordable equipment, a $500 scope (vortex seems to set their retail higher so that dealers can discount more ) is really a $400 selling price (on average, you might score a deal on closeouts), which means that it costs $80-$100 to make it, in which case, can you actually perform repairs on such a thing, given that your tech labor might be $30/hr, but given the overhead of running a company, the value of their time is in the 90-120 hr. range?

And if your warranty is great, that means you have to make all of your customers pay for the replacement scopes before they need them, by building that into the base manufacturing cost, which hopefully won't be many, but it contributes to the whole of thing...

Anyway, morning ramble. Time to do work. :)
I will
Say this - as a newfound lover of vortex, it broke my heart to learn they are made in China. My
Viper pst genII 1-6x24 is my
First foray into LPVO’s, and I am blown away with the quality
Of the glass, and especially just how fast the 1x truly
Is. When the “viewing window” is essentially your entire field of
Vision, rapid follow up shots even at a distance are much easier for me, as perceived visual recoil is reduced to a small dot bouncing a bit as opposed to an entire optics viewing window moving. God how I wish they weren’t made in China. I feel like I’m having a real crisis here, haha. I specifically try
To avoid Chinese made products, and with all the American people in their ads, podcasts, working in their customer service departments…. I am ashamed to admit it didn’t even occur to me. Meanwhile the EOtech I’ve mentally downgraded in my head is made 40 min from my hometown. Geez. Maybe I should check out a VUDU
 

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They aren't all made in china, and china production doesn't guarantee it is bad.

I think the PST line is sourced from factories in the Philippines.
 

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They aren't all made in china, and china production doesn't guarantee it is bad.

I think the PST line is sourced from factories in the Philippines.
Well that makes me feel better. I’ll have to look into it. It’s not necessarily a quality thing - we all witnessed holosun evolve from wish level trash to dang-near duty quality optics in a matter of what? 5 years? It’s more political. I don’t want to support a nation that wants to destroy us economically, the same way I don’t want to support Amazon who wants to destroy all small business, or anything from the big tech companies for that matter. I realize this is almost impossible in todays world, like someone trying to go truly vegan and not have any hand in anything that harms animals, but I like to make the effort where I can. My
New spitfire 3x prism? Made in China sticker right
On the box. Razor red dots for my 45
Mounts ? Made in Japan …. Viper pst, made in Philippines !!! The spitfire was the one I was feeling the least, no joke. The “last” gun for my 5 gun limit is going to be a carbine length AR, and I’m proud to say it won’t have Chinese anything on it now. My MK18 has an EOtech and diamondback irons, my socom II has the viper PST and razor red dot. Damn it feels good to have intuitively disliked the Chinese product the most. I’m going to have to start looking into this sort of thing. My Sig MCX Virtus is most likely going to have a viper PST 1-6 and a razor (I already bought the second razor like a weirdo), and I’m considering taking the LPVO from the socom, putting it on the Virtus, and grabbing an LPVO with a slightly higher top end magnification for the socom II. Maybe. I’m gonna go shoot it tomorrow for the first time and see how I like it, then on Monday, the range with 200 and 300 yard targets is open to the public, and I’ll try that there. To be honest? I kinda want the viper on my MK18
too. I put it on as a joke while I was bored waiting for my CASV rail, and GOOD GOD it performed way beyond anything I could have expected. That being said, I don’t wana just toss the EOtech … see this is the problem with too many options. Ah well. At least
I know what to do with the spitfire.
 

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I've always found it interesting that those seeking low scope mounting tend toward the ARMS 18. While it does have the lowest rail position of any of the mounts, the scopes cannot be mounted any lower than the eye piece has clearance with the rear sight aperture. Scopes can'tbe mounted any power on the ARMS mount than they can on a Sadlak or similar Brookfield styles which are much better quality. Owners also report that the ARMS mount has a higher instance of brass impacts and jamming due to it's low rail position. The earlier ARMS 18 mount had an open rail which didn't have this problem.


Couldn't you remove the rear sight assembly, thus lowering the scope and also offsetting some of the weight?
 

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Couldn't you remove the rear sight assembly, thus lowering the scope and also offsetting some of the weight?
As Ted said, the mounting height is determined by the bell on the front of the scope whether there is a rear sight in place or not.

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