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In the gilded halls of Valhala
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Who knows how these things start.

Now I l understand the idea of using a surefire x300 as a rifle light. I even use a pistol light on on my ar pistol.

But this thing with mounting the light in front of the front sight on the 12 rail is driving me up the wall!

Maybe someone can enlighten me as to why the light being there is more important than sight radius?

It is because of the way they grip the rifle?

I enjoy the arfcom picture threads and can't wait for this trend to die and move on.

 

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Another trend is my guess? Looks goofy to me, but maybe it has some tactical advantage...no? I didn't think so either...lol

-Sapp
 

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That's exactly what I do, and I didn't get it from AR15.com. I use a DD M4 V1, so I didn't shorten my sight radius.

When using cover during lowlight conditions, the light is supposed to precede the weapon. If you mount the light on the left or right side, this set up works great for one side of cover, put horrible for the other. If the light is on the wrong side of cover, you have to lean out an extra 2"-3" to deploy your light. That translates into more of your buddy leaning out as a target.

If the light is mounted at 6 o'clock, it works great for strong and support side cover, but terrible for shooting over cover. You have to raise the weapon, and expose more of your head, in order to deploy the light.

With the light at 12 o'clock, it works equally well from strong side, support side and over cover. It is also ambidextrous and I don't have to run any wires or cables.

It's my preferred setup, after trying most everything in actual real-world use.
 

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Good point...I bet that is exactly why their doing it. Left arm fully extended, easy access to light and light doesn't get in the way of a left or right handed grip. Who knows...I'd be a liar if I said I never got caught up in some of the good ol Arfcom trends...lol

-Sapp
 

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I was thinking about doing that to my M14. Lol

Dutch
 

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In the gilded halls of Valhala
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Ok so cmshoot thanks for weighing in. Your comment is as always well respected.

For me I don't like the loss of sight radius on the back ups.

But that's for me. As you said. My expierience has been getting to a match and my optic fails or I didn't zero it and I need to shoot with irons.

It seems to me someone needs to put out a 1000 lumen rifle light that is compact like a slightly larger in force wml


Put the tape switch on top.

I run my light on the 6 o'clock rail and I can operate with my index finger.
 

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In the gilded halls of Valhala
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I didn't see the first post cm. I guess the trend started based on real operator use. Very interesting.

Thanks for the input about this, especially about shooting over cover!

Well as far as the matches here go I am one of the few "gamers" in the club the rest are active duty and local law enforcement.

Can you comment on back up sights in general? Since you use an m4 you always have the front post so you may not need a rear back up ?
 

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I can't comment much on using an AR as a gamer's tool because I have done that very little. I can only comment on using it as combat-application weapon.
gamers tool... lol thats too funny.

i never did like mounting on the side and the only other option for me was on the bottom. never had a rail in front of the front sight post. the light i have is too big anyway...
 

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Maybe someone can enlighten me as to why the light being there is more important than sight radius?


A lot of guys will mount their light like this or with a cantilevered rail segment at 0130 or 2230 on the rail (Key Mod Rails are octagonal).

As for the bold, I guess it's not obvious, but most AR users are using optics with their rifles, whether it's a HWS, RDS, ACOG, or Scope. What they're doing is configuring the rifle optimally for their primary aiming solution, not for their back up solution.
 

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Not really an arfcom thing.
Every video I've seen with Larry Vickers has him running the light this way.

He seems to know what he's doing.

I like it. Allows me to activate my light right or left handed.

Doesn't work so well with the the Streamlights, as they're higher than the Surefires and can block out part of the sight.
 

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Why not put a circle or high output LED lights inside the floating handguard? Pressure switch to active them? Stealthy and tactical!

That way the rifle wouldn't look retarded having a flashlight in front of the front sight!
 

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In the gilded halls of Valhala
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Just Just to clarify. By "trend on arfcom " I am referring to photo thread trends.

You can go back almost a decade in some of them and mounting a light this way is most definitely a trend there.

It seems obvious now that trend began as a result of professionals using them .

And the fact that the most trusted light right now with good output is the X 3and x400.

I can see how some may have found my op offensive particularly service members running that set up.

I still am unsure about mounting the fixed front sight behind the light. I don't like it.


I did learn something valuable and that is putting the light out front of the gun.

I do hope a smaller 1000 lumen surefire light comes out in the near future
 

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Couple of things to note, as far as sight radius goes, most of these are carbine length gas systems so even with the front sight tower set back on the rail like that the for end is still putting the front sight post further than it would be with a traditional sight tower. Second as others have said they are back ups to the optics. Third, with the light at 12 o'clock and in front of the fsp you eliminate any undesired shadowing inside the beam, shadow from the barrel will be thrown to the 6 o'clock on the ground.
 

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In the gilded halls of Valhala
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Couple of things to note, as far as sight radius goes, most of these are carbine length gas systems so even with the front sight tower set back on the rail like that the for end is still putting the front sight post further than it would be with a traditional sight tower. Second as others have said they are back ups to the optics. Third, with the light at 12 o'clock and in front of the fsp you eliminate any undesired shadowing inside the beam, shadow from the barrel will be thrown to the 6 o'clock on the ground.
The dreaded tactical shadow.

Just kidding.

This post has been illuminating.

OK I'll stop. In all seriousness I have learned a lot. I have even found a few light mounts that get the light in front of the gun but off to the side a bit. So you can still get it over cover and no shadow.

I see this is all for house clearing mostly so there are home defense applications. Out doors you would opt for a dbal where the light is and NV, No?

I very much want to try a Texas hog hunt with nvd and an infrared laser.
 

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The dreaded tactical shadow.

Just kidding.

This post has been illuminating.

OK I'll stop. In all seriousness I have learned a lot. I have even found a few light mounts that get the light in front of the gun but off to the side a bit. So you can still get it over cover and no shadow.

I see this is all for house clearing mostly so there are home defense applications. Out doors you would opt for a dbal where the light is and NV, No?

I very much want to try a Texas hog hunt with nvd and an infrared laser.
Quality night vision is expensive. Quality thermal imaging devices are also expensive. IR lasers come with a serious capability to do permanent harm without the operators knowledge, depending on the class and wavelength of the laser. Be absolutely certain it is off and not on an IR setting before pointing it in an unsafe direction. Treat it like a gun. Even if it says it is an eye safe laser. Such safety ratings are based on a persons reaction time (blinking) from the aversion reaction of being dazzled. If it's on IR and you don't know it because you can't see the beam you have no aversion and it can still damage your cornea. If it's set to a visible beam it can burn the inside of your retina. In short treat a laser like a gun.
 
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