i was told it was that retard Clinton who took away our right to bear arms on post.
Thanks DoD for infringing upon our firearms rights
A part of our annual "anti-terrorism" training. LOL, these are our "options" in an active shooter situation on post an part of our online training-
----One of your friends notes that there may be no warning before the start of an active shooter situation. And, you might be caught with no chance to evacuate, barricade yourself in a room, or attack the perpetrator. You know you should dive for cover immediately. And you also know that in the event of an attack with firearms you should crouch on the floor. But what should you do in the event of an attack with grenades?
Dive for cover and run for exit at the first possible opportunity.
Dive behind something solid and lie flat on the floor.
Dive behind something solid and crouch on the floor.
Select the correct response.
Im so glad when we are on post (i.e. kill zones) that we have so many options at our desposal. In case of a shooting, "would you like to die now, or later?"
The reason why i posted this is because i was reminded how ABSURD it is that we as soldiers are not allowed to carry on post. Just plain rediculous and unamerican.
----One of your friends notes that there may be no warning before the start of an active shooter situation. And, you might be caught with no chance to evacuate, barricade yourself in a room, or attack the perpetrator. You know you should dive for cover immediately. And you also know that in the event of an attack with firearms you should crouch on the floor. But what should you do in the event of an attack with grenades?
Dive for cover and run for exit at the first possible opportunity.
Dive behind something solid and lie flat on the floor.
Dive behind something solid and crouch on the floor.
Select the correct response.
Im so glad when we are on post (i.e. kill zones) that we have so many options at our desposal. In case of a shooting, "would you like to die now, or later?"
The reason why i posted this is because i was reminded how ABSURD it is that we as soldiers are not allowed to carry on post. Just plain rediculous and unamerican.
21 - 29 of 29 Posts
Wrong, It was not Clinton!
I am going to vent a personal gripe. I am an Army veteran. I was a unit armorer when I was in.
The United States military has got to be one of the most stupid, f'd up institutions of this country.
Back in '87-'89 it was the same BS. Now, with the Army letting the muslim kill everyone at Ft Hood, I can say it and mean it. The military is just plain stupid - NOT THE MEN AND WOMEN ENLISTED, BUT THE LEADERS, ALONG WITH THE LEADERS OF OUR COUNTRY.
Quite frankly, it's why I got out ASAP. I could not handle the absurd nature of the bureaucracy and the BS. There is no excuse for the military to be governed in such a way.
I was expecting so much more brilliance when I went in - I was 19. I had no idea how bad it was going to be.
All that said, I would do it again, and miss everything it was supposed to be for me, but wasn't.
I am going to vent a personal gripe. I am an Army veteran. I was a unit armorer when I was in.
The United States military has got to be one of the most stupid, f'd up institutions of this country.
Back in '87-'89 it was the same BS. Now, with the Army letting the muslim kill everyone at Ft Hood, I can say it and mean it. The military is just plain stupid - NOT THE MEN AND WOMEN ENLISTED, BUT THE LEADERS, ALONG WITH THE LEADERS OF OUR COUNTRY.
Quite frankly, it's why I got out ASAP. I could not handle the absurd nature of the bureaucracy and the BS. There is no excuse for the military to be governed in such a way.
I was expecting so much more brilliance when I went in - I was 19. I had no idea how bad it was going to be.
All that said, I would do it again, and miss everything it was supposed to be for me, but wasn't.
leadbug, im sorry to say it- but i agree with you on so many levels in reguards to our senior leadership in the army. one big, beurocratic pile of stinky horse poo.
Even the senior NCO ranks (some sergeants major and 1sg's) are stinky poo poo too. Many seem to have THEIR best interests are heart, not the interests of our ARMY and the SOLDIERS that are in. sometimes loving on soldiers is not coddling them, but letting NCO's like me put a boot in their ass. Once every so often, i need a boot in MY ass too. Nope. everythings so PC now, and its only getting worse.
Whatever. in my sphere of influence, dont roll that way.
Even the senior NCO ranks (some sergeants major and 1sg's) are stinky poo poo too. Many seem to have THEIR best interests are heart, not the interests of our ARMY and the SOLDIERS that are in. sometimes loving on soldiers is not coddling them, but letting NCO's like me put a boot in their ass. Once every so often, i need a boot in MY ass too. Nope. everythings so PC now, and its only getting worse.
Whatever. in my sphere of influence, dont roll that way.
I was gonna keep my big fat mouth out of this, but thanks to Leadbug and Whatsinname181, I'm gonna chime in: I agree with 'em.
I was in during the mid 80's thru the early 90's.
I remember standing gate check w/ no round chambered. I recall patrols with no magazine inserted.
For the most part, weapons training was a joke. Blanks & Miles gear with very minimal rounds training (mostly for annual quals): "budget" was an oft cited reason.
It seems we were playing to be warriors, but never got the training.
It seems like the officers and brass were embarrassed about the fighting/hands-on aspect of military training. We couldn't get hurt or see blood or be stressed.
It wasn't until I passed recon selection that a whole new world of the military opened up.
I think much of the morale problem of the enlisted is that they get disappointed.
I saw officers and NCO's trying to be politicians rather than leaders.
I'll stop my rant afore I get carried away.
I was in during the mid 80's thru the early 90's.
I remember standing gate check w/ no round chambered. I recall patrols with no magazine inserted.
For the most part, weapons training was a joke. Blanks & Miles gear with very minimal rounds training (mostly for annual quals): "budget" was an oft cited reason.
It seems we were playing to be warriors, but never got the training.
It seems like the officers and brass were embarrassed about the fighting/hands-on aspect of military training. We couldn't get hurt or see blood or be stressed.
It wasn't until I passed recon selection that a whole new world of the military opened up.
I think much of the morale problem of the enlisted is that they get disappointed.
I saw officers and NCO's trying to be politicians rather than leaders.
I'll stop my rant afore I get carried away.
Not everyones a politician, some of us are leaders ----> Pro_USA1776 GI1
I was gonna keep my big fat mouth out of this, but thanks to Leadbug and Whatsinname181, I'm gonna chime in: I agree with 'em.
I was in during the mid 80's thru the early 90's.
I remember standing gate check w/ no round chambered. I recall patrols with no magazine inserted.
For the most part, weapons training was a joke. Blanks & Miles gear with very minimal rounds training (mostly for annual quals): "budget" was an oft cited reason.
It seems we were playing to be warriors, but never got the training.
It seems like the officers and brass were embarrassed about the fighting/hands-on aspect of military training. We couldn't get hurt or see blood or be stressed.
It wasn't until I passed recon selection that a whole new world of the military opened up.
I think much of the morale problem of the enlisted is that they get disappointed.
I saw officers and NCO's trying to be politicians rather than leaders.
I'll stop my rant afore I get carried away.
cool any good places to shoot down that way? Im from Pearl, Ms by the way....I'm glad I work in an armory.
About three years before I came to Edson Range as the NCOIC of the Armory, there was an incident where a recruit decided to take hostages from the rifle range. A Range Officer I knew talked the guy into taking him as one of the hostages. When it looked like the Recruit started to figure out he was not going to make it and might start shooting hostages, the Range Officer pulled out his pistol from his carry posistion under his utility jacket and behind his back. Two rounds in the recruit's chest and a third round into head and the recruit did not have a chance to shoot anyone before he died.
Under the investigation, everything was going good for the Range Officer until they asked him where he had gotten the pistol. They did not mind he was carrying it concealed, but that wasn't the problem. The problem turned out it was a .357 Smith and Wesson he personally owned. They had to give him an official reprimand, but it was the kind that was taken out of his OQR one year later and nothing permanent. The good news is that it did not hurt and probably helped him get promoted.
What I most strongly objected to, especially in the 1980's, was how we kept hammering the use of Deadly Force into the troops. The PROBLEM was our message came across as "DON'T SHOOT" most often, even when a situation arrived they not only were justified in shooting, but would have to do so to protect someone. So when I was the OD and at the daily Guard Mounts, I would quickly go over the use of Deadly Force as ordered for just a couple of minutes and THEN I went into about 15 minutes of when they should or were required to shoot. Then I told them that if they did shoot, there would be an Article 32 investigation as soon as possible. That always scared them, but I told them it was a GOOD thing as that way, one would be cleared of any fault and it would have been almost impossible for anyone to sue them in civiliain court.
Well, one of the end results of hammering "Deadly Force" into our Marines happened shortly after we arrived in Somalia. In one of our unit's perimeter fighting holes, a young Marine fell asleep. A Somali spotted that from a three story building nearby and came down and ran to that fighting hole and jumped in. Marines on both sides of him watched and did nothing. It was DARN fortunate for that sleeping Marine that he didn't get his throat slit. The Somali jumped out of the hole with the Marine's M249 SAW and ran off. Now NEITHER of the Marines on either side opened up and laid that Somali out. Since we operated under the ROE that even if someone just pointed a weapon at you, you could blow them away, the Marines' answers were sort of surprising. As they understood the use of Deadly Force, they were not allowed to open fire on the Somali even after he ran off with the M249 SAW.
I heard about this from some SNCO"s who were talking about it at HQ MARFOR up on the roof when we "dined' at night after the sun went down. I told them, "WTF did we expect after hammering "don't shoot" into our Marine's heads so much?!!" I told them we needed to make an example of this to inform our Marines of an example of WHEN to blow someone away.
Under the investigation, everything was going good for the Range Officer until they asked him where he had gotten the pistol. They did not mind he was carrying it concealed, but that wasn't the problem. The problem turned out it was a .357 Smith and Wesson he personally owned. They had to give him an official reprimand, but it was the kind that was taken out of his OQR one year later and nothing permanent. The good news is that it did not hurt and probably helped him get promoted.
What I most strongly objected to, especially in the 1980's, was how we kept hammering the use of Deadly Force into the troops. The PROBLEM was our message came across as "DON'T SHOOT" most often, even when a situation arrived they not only were justified in shooting, but would have to do so to protect someone. So when I was the OD and at the daily Guard Mounts, I would quickly go over the use of Deadly Force as ordered for just a couple of minutes and THEN I went into about 15 minutes of when they should or were required to shoot. Then I told them that if they did shoot, there would be an Article 32 investigation as soon as possible. That always scared them, but I told them it was a GOOD thing as that way, one would be cleared of any fault and it would have been almost impossible for anyone to sue them in civiliain court.
Well, one of the end results of hammering "Deadly Force" into our Marines happened shortly after we arrived in Somalia. In one of our unit's perimeter fighting holes, a young Marine fell asleep. A Somali spotted that from a three story building nearby and came down and ran to that fighting hole and jumped in. Marines on both sides of him watched and did nothing. It was DARN fortunate for that sleeping Marine that he didn't get his throat slit. The Somali jumped out of the hole with the Marine's M249 SAW and ran off. Now NEITHER of the Marines on either side opened up and laid that Somali out. Since we operated under the ROE that even if someone just pointed a weapon at you, you could blow them away, the Marines' answers were sort of surprising. As they understood the use of Deadly Force, they were not allowed to open fire on the Somali even after he ran off with the M249 SAW.
I heard about this from some SNCO"s who were talking about it at HQ MARFOR up on the roof when we "dined' at night after the sun went down. I told them, "WTF did we expect after hammering "don't shoot" into our Marine's heads so much?!!" I told them we needed to make an example of this to inform our Marines of an example of WHEN to blow someone away.
Run into the same problem today with deadly force. when youre in a good firefight, it doesent matter much except try not to shoot civilians who are running around or trying to get away- but when things are quiet and theres not much happening except sporadic small arms, its hard to discern sometimes. crowds of people and dense urban environments- hostile action/hostile intent is the modus operendae and is how we conducted ourselves in theater. even so, i have seen some hesitate under fire. weather it is a slow decision making process or a reluctance to shoot someone, i am not sure. i think with the advent of modern video games and the constant exposure to violence on tv, we have desensitized ourselves to some of this though. when in doubt, i always pull the trigger. id rather be tried by 12 than carried by six or worse yet, have my soldiers carried by six.
too bad that marine fell asleep on guard duty. he'd have been article 15'd and burning poo for the rest of his deployment if he was in my squad, lol.
too bad that marine fell asleep on guard duty. he'd have been article 15'd and burning poo for the rest of his deployment if he was in my squad, lol.
About three years before I came to Edson Range as the NCOIC of the Armory, there was an incident where a recruit decided to take hostages from the rifle range. A Range Officer I knew talked the guy into taking him as one of the hostages. When it looked like the Recruit started to figure out he was not going to make it and might start shooting hostages, the Range Officer pulled out his pistol from his carry posistion under his utility jacket and behind his back. Two rounds in the recruit's chest and a third round into head and the recruit did not have a chance to shoot anyone before he died.
Under the investigation, everything was going good for the Range Officer until they asked him where he had gotten the pistol. They did not mind he was carrying it concealed, but that wasn't the problem. The problem turned out it was a .357 Smith and Wesson he personally owned. They had to give him an official reprimand, but it was the kind that was taken out of his OQR one year later and nothing permanent. The good news is that it did not hurt and probably helped him get promoted.
What I most strongly objected to, especially in the 1980's, was how we kept hammering the use of Deadly Force into the troops. The PROBLEM was our message came across as "DON'T SHOOT" most often, even when a situation arrived they not only were justified in shooting, but would have to do so to protect someone. So when I was the OD and at the daily Guard Mounts, I would quickly go over the use of Deadly Force as ordered for just a couple of minutes and THEN I went into about 15 minutes of when they should or were required to shoot. Then I told them that if they did shoot, there would be an Article 32 investigation as soon as possible. That always scared them, but I told them it was a GOOD thing as that way, one would be cleared of any fault and it would have been almost impossible for anyone to sue them in civiliain court.
Well, one of the end results of hammering "Deadly Force" into our Marines happened shortly after we arrived in Somalia. In one of our unit's perimeter fighting holes, a young Marine fell asleep. A Somali spotted that from a three story building nearby and came down and ran to that fighting hole and jumped in. Marines on both sides of him watched and did nothing. It was DARN fortunate for that sleeping Marine that he didn't get his throat slit. The Somali jumped out of the hole with the Marine's M249 SAW and ran off. Now NEITHER of the Marines on either side opened up and laid that Somali out. Since we operated under the ROE that even if someone just pointed a weapon at you, you could blow them away, the Marines' answers were sort of surprising. As they understood the use of Deadly Force, they were not allowed to open fire on the Somali even after he ran off with the M249 SAW.
I heard about this from some SNCO"s who were talking about it at HQ MARFOR up on the roof when we "dined' at night after the sun went down. I told them, "WTF did we expect after hammering "don't shoot" into our Marine's heads so much?!!" I told them we needed to make an example of this to inform our Marines of an example of WHEN to blow someone away.
I know the Marine who fell asleep got at least an Article 15 and had to pay the government for the M249 SAW. What iI don't know for sure is if he got a Court Martial, and if so, which one it was.
21 - 29 of 29 Posts
- This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
M14 Forum
A forum community dedicated to M14 and M1A Rifle owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about optics, ammunition, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, Modern, Devine, SOCOM, EBR, classifieds, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
Recommended Communities
