M14 Forum banner
1 - 8 of 8 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,416 Posts
The problem with "teak oil" is manufactures put what ever they want in it.

Also working with dyes can be a pita it self.
I have been using transtint dye for a bit. Using it with pure tung oil, tung oil finish, wipe on poly, TruOil and other "wipe on" finishes. Then for what ever reason my last go around with TruOil i had issues.
The dye and oil just did not get along.

Also remember these oils build up each layer on top of each other which can have a effect on your appearance of the finish.
Im in toddler stage for wood finishing . Mostly its a quick sand and pure tung oil . Some i have done differently. Working with dye has been fun.
I have come to like applying dye by spray gun. Heres a rescued stock that was cracked and beat up. i steamed out a lot of dings but did not go to crazy. Cleaned it up repaired the cracks, applied some black dye sanded it back a bit then used minwax pre sealer before spraying on the dark red. No where as nice as some stocks posted here but Im a greenhorn. My phone and camera skills are also lacking.
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBcFSyps7Ok"]3M pads between coats of Tru Oil - YouTube[/ame]

Here is the stock all glossed up.
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5Q9dNm0X0w"]Tru Oil Full Gloss - YouTube[/ame]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,416 Posts
With much trepidation (having not taken this step before), I mixed my Stew Mac dyes (approximately 50/50 Tobacco Brown / Vintage Amber) into about 2 ounces of denatured alcohol, then applied to my USGI stock. I should not have been so nervous, as it was quite easy. The alcohol evaporates so quickly it's easy to see what's been well covered and what has not. I previously read from either Doug Carlson or M1Army how vintage amber seems to make the stock "pop" visually, so I then mixed up a little Vintage Amber and applied that. No clue if that was particularly good or bad. I didn't use any of the Red Cherry since the stock already had a reddish appearance. Maybe I'll add some of that.

After the dye fully dried I wet sanded at 1500. I like the appearance, but I don't think the change in color or contrast is tremendous as compared to how it looked before the dye was applied.

Question: Would this indicate the dye solution was too dilute in the denatured alcohol?

Question: Does the "translucence" / "chatoyance" develop with the wax buffing that's done after final wet sanding at 2000?

EDIT: From a pm with M1Army it appears that it's the end of the process, when buffing out the final wax finish that the translucence / chatoyance / "stock comes to life" occurs.

JGW

PS: This is fun! And for any of ya'll starting down this road, read all you can, and then jump in. I learned a lot from reading on this forum, but until you actually begin doing it much of what is read becomes a jumble or doesn't quite make sense. It only began to come together for me (the processes, etc.) once I started in on a stock. Hopefully, the results will come together also!

JGW​
If you apply stain or dye over a "over " sanded stock say 400+ or trying to add stain over say a coat or 2 of oil the "color" will not bite. Sometimes theres just not much cotrast. Trick a old timer showed me is rough sand trying to open up the grain. Then apply some stain/dye then le t it dry and sand back again and hope the more "open" grain sucks the color in deeper.
Some woods just wont take color well and it does not show much.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,416 Posts
We all look forward to seeing the finished stock JGW....

JWG - not trying to hijack your thread, but I thought everyone might enjoy this progression of pictures as it basically ties to what you are tying to explain -> [I have shown this on many of my refinish posts] but since we have some interest this might help everyone understand the progression. this is a really nice Birch TRW stock. My disclaimer again - there are hundreds of ways to refinish stocks and this is not the only way and I do not know it all, but this pictorial may help you follow this specific process.

After refinishing so many stocks over the years I can generally look at the stock after stripping it with Soy Gel and getting the first few coats of teak oil on the stock what type of plan I have for that specific stock in terms of staining / color. Generally speaking the staining we are discussing relates to birch stocks. However, even with a plan you might get into the refinish and the stock will dictate the direction you ultimately take. After finishing hundreds of stocks you begin to see certain attributes and you move along and make adjustments on the fly.

As far as walnut stocks I generally do not want to stain walnut unless the stock has a lot of Sap Wood and has light and dark areas. When I get a stock like that I often use a mix of tobacco brown and mahogany [I call it my "Walnut Helper"] and will stain the stock so it has a nice uniform color.

Like I have mentioned so many times before I have had a lot of "Failures" in the earlier years, but those failures taught important lessons that I retained on future refinishes.


Here is the starting point:



Next - using Soy Gel and to strip 60 years of crud off of the stock



Next - after removing the Soy Gel with a warm water bath and spraying down with de-greaser you have a Birch Stock stripped to the bare wood.....



Next - comes the "Tactical Sanding Phase" as I call it [Dry Sanding - generally use 150, 220 & finish with 320]- where I removed some of the "sins of the past" and ensure the stock has the sharp lines that an M14 stock should have. You may get a stock that has some damage or that has been sanded poorly in the past. This process corrects those problems. I would say this is one of the hardest steps to do well and can only be mastered with a lot of practice. You tend to know each stock manufacturer and the classic lines of the M14 stock. When a stock has been rounded off in certain areas due to poor sanding it is just ugly...




Next - after filling the grain with the stocks own sawdust, I begin working up the teak oil wet sanding progression. I generally begin by adding a thin coat of teak oil over the entire stock then work up the progression from 320 to 1000. You apply the teak oil, gently wet sand and then take your 2x2 cotton folded up lint free rag and wipe the stock down. You need to let the stock dry overnight, then repeat to the next grit. This is what the stock looks like after wet sanding with teak oil [Still NO Stain at this point]. To follow the entire process you need about 2 weeks and you need patience. Many are not willing to take the required amount of time to use this method as you are talking about 9 days to work up the wet sanding progression.



Next after reaching and finishing the 1000 grit wet sanding it is time to lay down the stain. I only use Stew Mac Alcohol Based Stain - this is a mixture of tobacco brown and vintage amber. A few pics after adding the stain to the stock then wet sanding at 1200. After adding the stain you need a VERY soft sanding hand to wet sand. You apply a thin coat of teak oil over the entire stock then apply very little pressure when you wet sand or you will loose color. You can see the stock has taken on some color. When the stock dries it will have a bit of a dull look [but don't worry].




Lastly - after working up to 2000 and doing the final wet sanding you allow the stock to dry two days then take it to the buffer and that is when you will see the reward of all your had work. I buff the stock and then hand wax [3-5 coats] with Renaissance Wax then do one more final buffing. This is the final Product / Reward!


Im actually surprised how well the color took applying it over the teak oil after it cures. One good thing about the dye over a few coats of oil is the dye is more "in" the oil than the wood. Defiantly a way to keep "open or end" grain from really sucking up the dye making a blotchy mess.

Heres my first big jump into dye. Looking for that Gibson Guitar sun burst look. It did not take as well as I liked and the grain was lifeless . I have used dye on other stocks also to try and get something different. this has Minwax Tung oil finish for a final coat. Its a tree rat gun so it sees use. Minwax tung oil finish repairs easily also.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,416 Posts
most of my stocks just get pure tung oil

The M1 eventually got the matching new wood hand guards
I did have to stain the C stocks as the parts where way off in tone. That took some time. Basically just went with a darker walnut stain to try and even out the hand guards.


Its all fun and I highly recomend practicing on scraps or small projects. I use cigar boxes sometimes to try stuff
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,416 Posts
heres one I simply stripped off that classic mud brown paint/stain/varnish they put on everything back in the day. Then a few coats of TO finish. Think it was Minwax could have been Tru oil.


I am a novice for sure and I dont really attempt anything unless I can live with messing it up.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,416 Posts
most of my stock work is on inexpensive guns that have that brown sludge applied at the factory.
Heres a few marlin 60s that where salvaged from the trash. Pretty beat up and ugly. The wood lent well to steam removal of dings and dents.
I played around with straight dye color the red is finished with just a few coats of tru oil and buffed back with rotten stone for a matte finish
the golden one is straight up minwax polycrylic its tough as nails but can show dings well and its not that easy to fix....

I dont know what type of wood this is but it did not suck up the color like I thought it would. It took what it would and unless I left the dye on there heavy (it was more like a top coat) it would basically just come out when applying the top coat? especially the red

I still think shellac offers some of the best looking finish but its just not very tough and is easily damaged with solvents.

My camera and skills are even worse than my wood skills
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,416 Posts
M1Army and everyone else sharing info here...
Thank You

I work with wood nearly every day and we are just about to jump into the
Alcohol Dye game. This info is very well timed.

There is a crazy piece of Birch, from our forest/mill/kiln, that I just sealed and shelved a few weeks ago. It has a pattern that is 6" to 8" wide that looks like
twisted hemp rope. As soon as the sawmill opened it, I knew what it wanted to be. Now, I have to wait for it to finish it's final drying and then...I plan a very patient attempt to build a new M14 NM stock from scratch.

I'll work on getting a pic or two on here.
Im not sure if they still do it but you could get wenig custom stocks to cut your blank to 80-90% then hand fit from there?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,416 Posts
I looked up Wenig and it appears that they still offer basic stock shaping.
The Rifle Gallery shows one M14 at the end, so I'll be contacting them for details and posting their answers to the forum, probably in a new post.
I bought several shotgun stocks from them. At that time I seen M1/M1a stocks available. Several years later I want to buy one of them. I called as it was not listed on their web site. They said they did not have any more blanks unless I wanted a Fancy grade walnut.... that was several years ago.
 
1 - 8 of 8 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top