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If anyone has seen the movie "Defiance" I though it was a great movie with a lot of good take-aways on what it might be like if/when Western civilization take a wrong turn.

These guys go into the woods with almost nothing and build a whole community all the while being surrounded by Nazis.

I should hope people would pull together like this. I guess the big difference is that all the people in the cummunity knew something about farming and construction. What percentage of Americans could pull this off today?

Thoughts?
 

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I think the biggest "take away" is that it's easier to prevent a totalitarian govt. than to replace one. The second biggest is that taking to the hills requires a group for mutual support and aid. The usual macho crap will die off quickly when chores need to be done, security pulled, and rest is needed ALL at the same time.
 

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I think the biggest "take away" is that it's easier to prevent a totalitarian govt. than to replace one. The second biggest is that taking to the hills requires a group for mutual support and aid. The usual macho crap will die off quickly when chores need to be done, security pulled, and rest is needed ALL at the same time.
That's for damn sure. I spent my last deployment pulling base security (in a cav scout unit by the way, how's that for REMF?) and it sucks. Taking to the hills means giving up running water, electricity, etc. and all of the stuff that goes with it, i.e. internet, hot showers, TV, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Well I was also thinking about the farmers who were caught in the middle. The refugees in the woods would gently take stuff they needed to survive but then the farmers would have to face the Nazis who would ask where half their food went and they wanted it too.

I absolutely loved the movie but it definitely got me thinking...
 

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My biggest takeaway was "Don't be Jewish in Russia in WWII", for it will be a contest as to despises you more!!
 

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That incident occurred over 65 years ago and is irrelevant in today's world. The idea of "hiding in the woods" has become a fantasy because with today's technology it is simply not possible. If someone wants to find you they will, and if that same someone wants to kill you they likely will accomplish that also.
 

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That's right.......WAR DOESN'T NECESARILY DETERMINE WHO'S RIGHT, BUT IT ALWAYS DECIDES WHO'S LEFT!!!
 

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My stepfather's father was in that scenario, the story is that his town leaders were communist. They survived in the woods for a little over a full year, they were caught bombing rail road cars with some sort of home made pressure mines. As his story goes, the fourth train they tried blowing up was followed by i think it was two, halftracks full of soldiers.

Point of the story; back in 1941 they lasted not even a year. Imagine the technology now? Another point was that they didnt ever engage with small arms, from what i was told. Something to think about.

After they were all caught, he spent the rest of the war years in a german work camp, being escorted daily mostly burying bodies from the concentration camp down the road and loading/unloading train cars. What can my experiance add to this conversation? Well, it seems to be much easier to keep a totalitarian goverment from taking power then it would be to replace one, especially when you're not a nation sitting on the sideline, and you're the one in the woods hiding living a ty life.
 

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That incident occurred over 65 years ago and is irrelevant in today's world. The idea of "hiding in the woods" has become a fantasy because with today's technology it is simply not possible. If someone wants to find you they will, and if that same someone wants to kill you they likely will accomplish that also.
I would like to point out several elements missed so far:

1 - those brothers were woodsmen in the true meaning of the word. They were not running around in the woods trying to figure things out survival-wise. They were trying to tackle management issues, how to do what with the people they had.

2 - the movie was 65 years ago, a blink of the eye for Time. It is relevant because satellites don't operate forever, they are costly to "retask" and what makes anyone think they are of high enough priority to even be on a satellite task list? In a SHTF scenario whoever has control of the satellites will be just as worried about foreign threars as domestic threats, possibly more the foreign brand unless local kids get their hands on nukes, which is very unlikely, no matter what Hollywood would lead us to believe.

3 - having been on the military side of nuclear power, and then on the civilian side of same, i can safely say that the civilian government is full of non-self-starters (I had morons, but that doesn't do the mentally handicapped any favors). The biggest problem the remainders of our government would have is figuring out how to do anything!. The military is also a problem for the remains of government as the military swears an oath to the Constitution, not a bunch of bickering old farts. How often in our own lifetimes has our military come up on the raw end of a Congressional deal? You think the military won't remember?

Things to ponder...

3 -
 

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thanks

Thanks Tonyben for the thread .

1 only part of the threat will be from organized military most of the threat will be from gangs and small groups who will look like guy down the road so who is the enemy will be hard to determine in a instant .
2 the global military will be worse than our homegrown military, they hate all of us and will not care about rules of engagement.
3 the enemy will be a EVIL army and may only look like a muslim /communist on the surface but will have a worse view of christians than the nazi's had of the jews. when our enemy would rather die than loose it will be hard to break their will to fight on.

NRA LIFE MEMBER

U. S. ARMY VET

"All gave some but some gave ALL"
 

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I would like to point out several elements missed so far:

1 - those brothers were woodsmen in the true meaning of the word. They were not running around in the woods trying to figure things out survival-wise. They were trying to tackle management issues, how to do what with the people they had.

2 - the movie was 65 years ago, a blink of the eye for Time. It is relevant because satellites don't operate forever, they are costly to "retask" and what makes anyone think they are of high enough priority to even be on a satellite task list? In a SHTF scenario whoever has control of the satellites will be just as worried about foreign threars as domestic threats, possibly more the foreign brand unless local kids get their hands on nukes, which is very unlikely, no matter what Hollywood would lead us to believe.

3 - having been on the military side of nuclear power, and then on the civilian side of same, i can safely say that the civilian government is full of non-self-starters (I had morons, but that doesn't do the mentally handicapped any favors). The biggest problem the remainders of our government would have is figuring out how to do anything!. The military is also a problem for the remains of government as the military swears an oath to the Constitution, not a bunch of bickering old farts. How often in our own lifetimes has our military come up on the raw end of a Congressional deal? You think the military won't remember?

Things to ponder...

3 -
I wasn't thinking of anything as sophisticated as satellites. I was thinking along the lines of easily obtainable thermal imaging equipment. Just that quickly eliminates the option of "hiding in the woods."
 

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I wasn't thinking of anything as sophisticated as satellites. I was thinking along the lines of easily obtainable thermal imaging equipment. Just that quickly eliminates the option of "hiding in the woods."
I just don't think this is true. I used to, but, hasn't quite worked out that way in Iraq and Afghanistan. But, with billions of dollars of advantage that a government won't have if TSHTF, we seems to be losing slowly there.
 

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Also, I think there will be a LOT of resistance in the U.S. military to any non constitutional actions. Maybe only some initially, but I think it will grow rapidly. Hero's just don't act like bullies.
 

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I’ve been doing volunteer SAR work in southern NM for several years. I remember one occasion when the State Police deployed a helicopter with thermal imaging technology to look for a couple of lost hikers at night. They couldn’t find them. They said rocks and cliffs on southern exposures put off a lot of heat that would mask the thermal signature of a person. Also they said deer bedded down had a similar thermal signature to people bedded down. I would expect people trying to hide would be more difficult to find than lost hikers who want to be found. Bottom line is technology isn’t infallible.
 

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The first inflamed root of a tooth will cause sepsis and probably kill you. And you have 32 of them little suckers.
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