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Sir: With all due respect I find your Thread somewhat difficult to digest. You claim this rifle would shoot 1.5" to 2" ten shot groups all day long at 100 yards using iron sights.. Now, some number of years later, this rifle now having the gas system cleaned has opened up to unacceptable size groups.. To my knowledge there is only one person that could assist you, he is listed below.

My humble suggestion is for you to make every effort to find the group measuring instrument used previously. Or, failing to locate the instrument, contact "Rojkoh".. Respectfully, Art
 

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In the gilded halls of Valhala
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I think its not fair to ask anyone on the net to speculate about rifle accuracy problems when the owner has not had a trusted competent shooter fire the rifle as well.
 

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Art, that wasn't necessary, particularly lumping me in with Rojkoh. If you had a question regarding my intentions or veracity you could have PM'd me. I made a change in my M14 and something bad happened, all I was looking for was some probable reasons. Instead I get a ration of it from you. GFY.
 

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I don't care to toss or catch any live ones, but having read your "Here's my problem" post, I couldn't dodge having some head-scratchers about it. Let's leave inches out of it for now. The rifle was shooting a string of 10 at 100 yds tight and to your satisfaction before you dis-assembled and re-assembled the gas system, right? And you didn't disturb the flash suppressor, right? Now, I'm supposing you're doing your 100 yd group shooting from a bench, slow-fire, with a rest or bags or some kind of support. I've watched people make good M14 clone rifles shoot badly by resting the magazine on some object. But other than that, you've still got the same barrel, the same front sight, and the same rear sight. Slow-fire, the gas system shouldn't be making any difference. You can test it - turn it off. I predict it won't make any diff to the group sizes you're reporting.

Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Art, that wasn't necessary, particularly lumping me in with Rojkoh. If you had a question regarding my intentions or veracity you could have PM'd me. I made a change in my M14 and something bad happened, all I was looking for was some probable reasons. Instead I get a ration of it from you. GFY.

I think it is important, nobody associated you with anyone. it was merely a suggestion. As for the accuracy claims listen to what you said and how that plays out.

Firing 1" to 2'' all day long, I will leave the iron sights out. in an all day adventure at the range, you would consume no less than 250 rounds, that is the min., assuming you fire slowly. You would have us believe there would not be one shot outside of two inches out of 250 fired. Why would any one other than rojkho expect anybody to swallow that?

I notice there are no support posts for your Thread. Perhaps you should reconsider and stand up to this folly.. I would like to have you a a friend, please make some effort to bring this about..

Regards, art
 

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Quote from mineralman55:
Up until late last year it used to shoot 1.5-2" 10-shot groups all day long at 100 yards, with iron sights. After 20 years of usage I took apart the gas cylinder for a good cleaning. There was a lot of carbon build up, but nothing seemed out of place.

It now shoots 6" groups. Same loads, same everything. I tried the M14 on two different occasions, same results. I took my AR out (it needs love too) to see if it's me, nope. It shot a 1" 10-shot group at 100 yards with iron sights.
It's not the ammunition, it's not me.

mineralman55,
I am no way trying to put anybody down here, just trying to make a point.
The "bold" parts of this post I think is what causing this kind of attention & negativity from others & the association with "Rojkoh" who also seems to brag just how good everything he does. Let's face it, if you were that good why are you not shooting in competions? I know for a fact & has been mentioned before about "my rifle can shoot 1.5"-2" groups all day long" is a real turn-off to many here. It would have been better to state:
"my rifle has been holding tight groups for many years & I just cleaned out my gas cylinder & the pattern opened up to 6" & ..... I believe this is the point that is trying to be made here, sounds more like bragging without the credentials.

Some on this forum actually have done this many times but nobody is perfect, except maybe "Rojkoh". Get my point.
Just my .02 cents.
 

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This is like the old joke about looking for your lost keys under a street light. It's unlikely that's where you lost them, but the light is very good there.
The shooter is rare (and those that will admit it are rarer still), that has not succumbed to loose nut behind the trigger syndrome, at some point.
No disrespect intended toward mineralman55, or Rojkoh.
sheesh
 

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I was wondering about that post too and I tried to reply, but everything I wrote sounded condesending or worse. The only thing I could think of is that the gas cyl or piston got damaged during removal, cleaning or reassembly. I didn't want to put it this way because it suggest MM is unable to perform a simple task and I have no way of knowing his level of competency. Thru the years I have seen many parts of machinery abused by people that just didn't know any better.

Mineralman please don't think I am putting you down, but why would you wait so long to remove the gas cyl for cleaning? Did you have any trouble getting it apart or putting it back together? Were there hammers involved?
See what I mean it doesn't sound nice but I think the general concensus of this latest thread is that a normal cleaning of the gas cyl would not cause the accuracy of the rifle to fall off a cliff. Something else must have happened during the work.
 
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In the gilded halls of Valhala
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I find shooting to be like golf. Are you a scratch golfer ? (not that being good at golf makes you a good shooter, bear with me)

I played varsity golf in high school and my shooting parallels my golf career in eerie ways.

I would go to the practice round and shoot an 80-85. Then on the regional tourney I might shoot a 98 (total chokage)

What Did I do differently between those two days? nothing. But i can tell you out on that course after double bogey I would be telling myself "YOU ARE WAY BETTER THAN THIS"

Fast forward 15 years to now. I go to the range as much as I can afford to (usually only 4-8 times a month) I have gone out there and shot good enough for competition shooting some days. Other days I can't shoot for (#*&

What I'm trying to say is inconsistency can strike at any time in any sport in your life, the first thing you do in rifle shooting is have a trusted (and hopefully more consistent shooter) take your rifle and show you that its all you. If they have the same results then the probability of something being wrong with the rifle increases.


NOW BACK TO YOUR SITUATION

You mentioned that
Up until late last year it used to shoot 1.5-2" 10-shot groups all day long at 100 yards, with iron sights. After 20 years of usage I took apart the gas cylinder for a good cleaning.
So your rifle worked properly 20 years ago or last year? What I'm getting at is how long has the rifle sat unfired? I am also with Mr. Luppino about claiming all day long. The times i have shot all day long i had some HORRIBLE groups it just happens. Thats what i like so much about this sport . The pride and satisfaction of knowing you did your best, sometimes in the face of adversity (had a bad day/week/month)

What makes you so sure something is wrong with the rifle?

Lets look at this logically. Our very experienced armorers here have likely seen just about any problem that can arise with this system. But you only get advice based on what you tell them.

If you go on a mechanic website for your corvette and say "my car has lost all of its performance and all i did was change the air filter" What could they possibly tell you.


What you need to do is have someone else shoot the rifle then if you are sure something is wrong send it in to a competent armorer, assuming you haven't told them all to )(#**$.
 
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