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Hey there,

Foremost, nice to meet you all and good to be here.

I am the owner of a brand new Springfield M1A that shoots 10+MOA (and wildly). I am sending it back to Springfield to be examined and (hopefully) fixed. As I search the web and this forum, it seems the rifle is prone to accuracy problems due to poor quality control. Nonetheless, I'll wait an extra four weeks for the repair, and I'll post back with the results.

If they get it shooting reasonably well (<3MOA), I'll try applying some of the accurizing advice to close the groups to where I really want.

Also, I realize that swapping barrels is an involved procedure for this platform, but would a Fulton 18.5" with a 1/10 twist help stabilize rounds better? I have the M1A Scout 18" with a 1/12 twist.
 

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Hey there,

Foremost, nice to meet you all and good to be here.

I am the owner of a brand new Springfield M1A that shoots 10+MOA (and wildly). I am sending it back to Springfield to be examined and (hopefully) fixed. As I search the web and this forum, it seems the rifle is prone to accuracy problems due to poor quality control. Nonetheless, I'll wait an extra four weeks for the repair, and I'll post back with the results.

If they get it shooting reasonably well (<3MOA), I'll try applying some of the accurizing advice to close the groups to where I really want.

Also, I realize that swapping barrels is an involved procedure for this platform, but would a Fulton 18.5" with a 1/10 twist help stabilize rounds better? I have the M1A Scout 18" with a 1/12 twist.
10 MOA?....what the heck were you shooting and at what distance?......was this scoped or irons?.......so many questions/variables....but 10 MOA?

Not to be rude, but what is your shooting experience?
 

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Welcome from Florida

Good luck with the Scout, (love mine). It will be interesting to hear what SAI reports back. I think most here would ask about the shooter and/or ammo. Number of rounds in your group? No disrespect intended but usually the standard M1A-type is capable of much tighter groups, even with surplus ammo. Large "wildly" groups make me think of something being loose, something that interferes in shots in different ways each time - a barrel might throw them consistently one place - unless it is shot out. Loose muzzle devise, gas plug, front sight, - something that changes as the shooting progresses - if it is not shooter induced. Those who are not M1A-familiar (AR-type shooters, bolt actions, etc) may need some dry fire time and then several mags of live fire before judging the equipment's ability. If however you have time on task perhaps it is equipment related - it won't be the first or last time I'm sure.
 

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Please describe in full details of what you did at the range to get 10MOA. We are here to help and also very curious if it is indeed the rifle is at fault.
 

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It seems to me I am hearing more and more horror stories of M1A's right out of the box having to go back to Springfield. This is unacceptable - even though Springfield prides itself on their warrantee program - new rifles should not need "fixing" so soon. If they have the time to rework the rifles, they should have the time to make them right in the first place! QC seems to be a problem these days. Having said that, I own three M1A's and have never had a problem but I do read about many sub-par rifles in these Forums.
 

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The biggest issue I see with almost every rack M1A I look at is the handguard does not allow a draw pressure check. I'm talking a solid wedged connection with NO give! Like it's glued to the stock! However, 10+ MOA is pretty crazy!

Leon McKee
 

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I sent my SOCOM 16 back to Springfield at the first part of this past summed for the same reason.

It was shooting 7 inch groups at 100 yards.

I got it back right at the 2 month mark and they had it shooting 1.5" groups with FGMM and I could easily duplicate that with my handloads.

If there is an accuracy issue, SA will sort it out.
 

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Welcome to the forum for M14 nuts.

I got a rack grade green stock one last year that shoots an honest 1.5 MOA with irons from the bench. I cannot imagine one that wont shoot better than 11 inches from a bench with good ammo.
 

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Yep, that is not a "group", it is a "pattern". If the ammo is good quality it should do much better than that. I don't think they test fire for accuracy, just function. Hopefully they can resolve the problem for you in short order. I would be disappointed also. My SOCOM from March of this year performs very well. Best wishes!
 

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Welcome from North Central Ohio. . . .

The M1A or M14 platform is intended to be a much better shooter than 10 moa, . . .

Mine is a 1.5 moa shooter with me on a good day, . . . but at 72, . . . those days are getting fewer and farther between.

Still your should shoot better than that.

I'd be curious as others have mentioned, . . . as to what you shot and how you shot it.

May God bless,
Dwight
 
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It seems to me I am hearing more and more horror stories of M1A's right out of the box having to go back to Springfield. This is unacceptable - even though Springfield prides itself on their warrantee program - new rifles should not need "fixing" so soon. If they have the time to rework the rifles, they should have the time to make them right in the first place! QC seems to be a problem these days. Having said that, I own three M1A's and have never had a problem but I do read about many sub-par rifles in these Forums.
Agreed, don't think SAI was the same after Bob Reese left and Melvin Smith retired, both me and a buddy was less than impressed with their gunsmithing of late. Thing is they've been cutting corners since the "Golden Age", less machining steps, hand finishing is almost nonexistent, more commercial parts & outsourcing, so I'm almost sure quality control has suffered somewhat. That's why I always suggest finding an SAI standard model in the 042201-063000 serial # range, then have anybody but them match condition it.

Just my .02 cents worth.
 

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Welcome to the forum.

Forget about barrels. You have something wrong.
It could be the rifle in which case Springfield will sort it out.
It could be the operator.
Or it could be the scope,mount, ring setup.


Give more details.
Are you shooting off a bench?
Are you scoped?
What scope
What mount and rings?
What ammo?
What distance?
What do you get with irons at 50 yards?
 

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I'm not doubting you BUT we need more info , post photos of your group ,the offending weapon, ID the type and brand of ammo? , scoped or open sights?
benched and bagged or standing ,sitting' or prone? have you ever shot a Garand or M1A before? the wind? temp? humidity? etc etc.

We recently had a guy that posted loudly about his "defective " M1A that had never once fired it and had instead sat on his couch cycling live rds by hand, never letting the op rod fly,
that farce went on & on for well over a week.

We average roughly 5 or 6 defects a year here and have for the last 6 years I've been here, which ain't too bad for as many rifles as SAI produces
& those few defects get "peated" a dozen times and then "repeated" to death.
Show us what you got.
If you do get one of the rare bad ones SAI has the best guarantee in the business.
 

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For as complex as the M1A looks, it's actually pretty simple in function. If the rifle is truly shooting 10 MOA, there's something a lot more fundamental than the sum quality of the parts causing it. There would have to be breakdown in the system somewhere.
 

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Mirrors sometimes tell all......

For as complex as the M1A looks, it's actually pretty simple in function. If the rifle is truly shooting 10 MOA, there's something a lot more fundamental than the sum quality of the parts causing it. There would have to be breakdown in the system somewhere.
Yes Sir.....it's called the "nervous system"......Ha!...; )
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Ah, I thought I'd offended the M1A gods and that this post wasn't getting approved; thanks for responding -- esp. Springfield Armory rep. I will IM you the details of the case I opened with Springfield.

The details you all requested are below. Big thanks to @M14 forum, especially @TonyBen for the learning resources you have published.

Problem Details:
* New Springfield Armory Scout 18.5" w/o modifications, w/o sling, 2-stage trigger
* Shooting setup: sitting, bench rest, iron sights, 25-100m, minimal wind
* Shooter experience: Novice:Competent:Intermediate:Advanced:Expert
* Range test #1 (150gr FMJ, various brands): wandering zero, 10MOA groups @ 100m.

Troubleshooting:
* Complaint: called SAI. 2-4wk turnaround. Leery of final results due to others' reports. Said screw it, will fix/optimize myself.
* Researched M1A. Disassembled, cleaned and lubricated. Verified basic mechanics.
* Range test #2 (168gr AE): consistent zero, 5MOA groups @ 50m. Wanted better.
* Inspection pass: Projectile clearance of muzzle brake OK, stock-piston/oprod clearance OK, rear sights OK, front sight tension OK, gas cylinder port alignment OK, gas lock timing OK, gas cylinder nut tight, eyeballing yields no obvious metallurgical imperfections, trigger is GREAT.
* Inspection fail: Front band play, horizontal play in spring & recoil guide likely causing inconsistent oprod-piston function, stock-to-action lockup mediocre, rear handguard contact with receiver, handguard contact with stock along length of rifle.
* Suspicious of: barrel

Planned Mitigation (Opinions very welcome on whether I am chasing red herrings)
* Stripped receiver, disassembled rifle. Will take to gunsmith for barrel removal (See pic:
)
* Ordered replacement Fulton Armory barrel with 1:10 twist (non-chromed).
* Ordered Sadlak spring guide, and chrome-silicon recoil spring.
* Ordered unitized gas cylinder.
* Will submit barrel, op rod, spring guide, cylinder, receiver, and bolt for QPQ meloniting.
* Will submit barrel for installation, timing, reaming and head-spacing.
* Will shim or bed stock myself, maybe w soft/metal, like Al. More research needed.
* Will sand handguard to eliminate receiver and stock contact.
* Will "semi-float" handguard with silicon.
* Will sand out bottom of stock a little for extra clearance (peace-of-mind)
* Will find a way to brace polymer stock without interfering with oprod.
* Glue front band to handguard and ferrule (?)

Goal
* Optimize part life and longevity
* 2 MOA or less @ 100m with common 147gr-150gr

I'm interested to know whether you think my remedies and methods will help me achieve my end goal. I was initially annoyed, but I am enjoying learning more about and customizing the M1A platform. I am curious about the following. Can someone advise?

- Why will this rifle fire 168gr well, but M80 ball terribly? Powder differences, pressure differences, dwell time, barrel twist rate?

- How critical is it that I break-in my barrel before having it melonited?

- Any other comments or responses?

Thanks!
 
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