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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm looking at this for a self-defense round. Note that this would only be for "special situations" and it would not be my first choice for defense. First choices are 124gr Remington Golden Saber for 9mm, 230gr Remington Golden Saber for .45, and any decent 62gr for AR/Mini-14.

I'm looking at this because Winchester's "defense" 308 can't be found. I think this is supposed to be for law-enforcement, but it is available for non-LEOs.

My main question is if it is going to bend/break my op rod. The muzzle velocity is 2820fps, which is 20fps over @KurtC 's recommended max for 150gr in M14s/M1As.

Comments? Criticisms? Yea or nay?
 

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This detail:
  • Self-defense rifle loads optimized for peak FBI protocol performance though barrels shorter than 16 inches
Makes me believe it uses a faster than usual powder, which would actually generate less pressure at the gas port than more traditional slower powders.
 

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If you got that muzzle velocity data from the box then don't rely on it, box velocities are rarely what you really see in the real world.

In this case if the ammo was developed for barrels shorter than 16 inches and they were getting muzzle velocities of 2820 FPS then somebody is lying. Producing that kind of velocity in a 16 inch barrel will require chamber pressures that are close to proof test values, way over the SAAMI recommended max. My guess is that if you chronographed that ammo you'd actually see something around 2800 FPS in a 22 inch barrel and 2600 FPS in a 16 inch barrel.
 

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If you got that muzzle velocity data from the box then don't rely on it, box velocities are rarely what you really see in the real world.

In this case if the ammo was developed for barrels shorter than 16 inches and they were getting muzzle velocities of 2820 FPS then somebody is lying. Producing that kind of velocity in a 16 inch barrel will require chamber pressures that are close to proof test values, way over the SAAMI recommended max. My guess is that if you chronographed that ammo you'd actually see something around 2800 FPS in a 22 inch barrel and 2600 FPS in a 16 inch barrel.
I do not know about Gold dot velocity as I have not tried it. My normal defense and deer hunting load is Remington green & yellow box 150 grain which is down around 2600 and very effective. I agree the published velocity data is usually based off of the longer barrels and usually slower than advertised .
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
If you got that muzzle velocity data from the box then don't rely on it, box velocities are rarely what you really see in the real world.

In this case if the ammo was developed for barrels shorter than 16 inches and they were getting muzzle velocities of 2820 FPS then somebody is lying. Producing that kind of velocity in a 16 inch barrel will require chamber pressures that are close to proof test values, way over the SAAMI recommended max. My guess is that if you chronographed that ammo you'd actually see something around 2800 FPS in a 22 inch barrel and 2600 FPS in a 16 inch barrel.
That is a helluva observation! I was so busy looking at the MV, the obvious BS went right past me.

Thank you for the general tip and the specific tip. On the subject, when the barrel length is specified in ballistics data, do you consider that to be more accurate for real-world performance?
 

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That is a helluva observation! I was so busy looking at the MV, the obvious BS went right past me.

Thank you for the general tip and the specific tip. On the subject, when the barrel length is specified in ballistics data, do you consider that to be more accurate for real-world performance?
If the specified barrel length matches yours then I'd expect that the true muzzle velocity will be something like ±50 FPS of what is advertised. Even when the barrels are the same length the condition of the chamber and the ambient temperature will have an effect on muzzle velocities.
 
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