i bought a brand new socom16 about a month ago and the iron sights worked perfectly right from the get go, me and several of my friends were all getting nice grouping all the way out to 100 yards so im positive the ballistics of the gun itself are fine. 2 weeks ago i bought and mounted a vortex crossfire II, its a lower end scope but the advertised 9.45 inches of eye relief caught my eye plus money was tight. the scope was mounted by a gunsmith and laser bore sighted, when i get out to the range right off the bat at 50 yards im FEET above the target so i dial it down as low as the scope will go and aim for a metal gong 200 yards out, still with the scope bottomed out i was a foot and a half above target. the exact model i have is the vortex crossfire II 2-7x32 and i did all this at the lowest 2x magnification. i took it back and they remounted it and laser bore sighted it again and its still shooting high, any suggestions?
SOCOM-16 vortex scope issue-need help-
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This is a long shot (pun) - Have the mount/rings got +20 moa built into them like those for long distance shooters?
I wonder if the smith's laser is wacked as well - was it a cartridge type that goes in the chamber or hang out the muzzle type? If hang out the muzzle, I think the smith's laser is off.
I know your smith said they re-checked everything but it could be the rings are not locked onto the rail correctly, back ring canted upward for some reason pitching the scope downward.
If everything is tight & right maybe the scope is bad. M1As are brutal on scopes.
I wonder if the smith's laser is wacked as well - was it a cartridge type that goes in the chamber or hang out the muzzle type? If hang out the muzzle, I think the smith's laser is off.
I know your smith said they re-checked everything but it could be the rings are not locked onto the rail correctly, back ring canted upward for some reason pitching the scope downward.
If everything is tight & right maybe the scope is bad. M1As are brutal on scopes.
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Something is wrong (duh!). If it was laser bore sighted properly, so the laser and the bore are parallel, the impact will always be low. A bullet will never climb above the bore line - because of gravity, it will always fall.
If he bore sighted it so the laser and the scope converge, especially at a shorter distance, then you could be shooting high by a lot. Let's say you have 2 inches between the bore and the centerline of the laser. If he had them converge in his shop at, say 20 feet, would be almost 30MOA high. That would be 15 inches high at 50 yards. Sounds about like what you got.
To properly laser bore sight, you either want the crosshairs and the dot to converge at about target distance. or if you want to do it at short distance, set it so the dot is below the point of aim by about the same distance as the bore to scope centerline.
Question now is how to fix it. If it is out by more than the adjustment range of the scope. you are going to have to replace the rail. Do not be tempted to replace one ring, as then the two rings will not be parallel, and it will create stresses on the tube that can pull optics out of alignment.
You might also check if he bubba'd it by trying to put shims in the bottom of the rear ring. If he did, those need to come out, and then the rings will need re-lapping (if they were ever lapped).
If he bore sighted it so the laser and the scope converge, especially at a shorter distance, then you could be shooting high by a lot. Let's say you have 2 inches between the bore and the centerline of the laser. If he had them converge in his shop at, say 20 feet, would be almost 30MOA high. That would be 15 inches high at 50 yards. Sounds about like what you got.
To properly laser bore sight, you either want the crosshairs and the dot to converge at about target distance. or if you want to do it at short distance, set it so the dot is below the point of aim by about the same distance as the bore to scope centerline.
Question now is how to fix it. If it is out by more than the adjustment range of the scope. you are going to have to replace the rail. Do not be tempted to replace one ring, as then the two rings will not be parallel, and it will create stresses on the tube that can pull optics out of alignment.
You might also check if he bubba'd it by trying to put shims in the bottom of the rear ring. If he did, those need to come out, and then the rings will need re-lapping (if they were ever lapped).
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kbforme, an option is using Burris Signature Zee rings. They have polymer ring inserts for 1" tubes, that you can get offsets for. They have .005/.010/.020 inch offsets, which using 2 rings allows you to make up to .040" adjustment without limiting out on in-scope adjustments. They are Weaver spec bases instead of Picatinny, and the diameter of the locking "bolts" are a lot smaller in diameter, but you can position the rings forward in the leading slot, and rearward in the trailing slot, to prevent any fore to aft movement with recoil. As a side benefit, the polymer inserts may provide a little vibration insulation for the scope.
ShootingSight has a valid point, on the distance the smith was sighting it in at.
ShootingSight has a valid point, on the distance the smith was sighting it in at.
a bit more info
wow sorry guys cant believe i left out the mounting hardware, no idea what brand they are but they are just your standard scope mount rings, im unable to make any adjustments to them. the scope is mounted scout style on the front rail of my socom16. lastly yes ive heard people complaining that their factory new socom16 was shooting high right out of the box and i would be inclined to believe mine is also defective if not for shooting it constantly for 2 weeks with no scope and just iron sights, with no adjustments to the sights what so ever me and several others were getting very tight grouping at 100 yards. so scope is mounted on the front and only rail with 2 steel mounting rings, the rings themselves i can make no adjustments to. obviously this is a problem the gunsmith needs to sort out its just that im small town and i have to drive about 2 hours where i bought the gun to get it looked at so im looking here for any solutions i can either do myself or inform the gunsmith of so he can make the proper corrections.
wow sorry guys cant believe i left out the mounting hardware, no idea what brand they are but they are just your standard scope mount rings, im unable to make any adjustments to them. the scope is mounted scout style on the front rail of my socom16. lastly yes ive heard people complaining that their factory new socom16 was shooting high right out of the box and i would be inclined to believe mine is also defective if not for shooting it constantly for 2 weeks with no scope and just iron sights, with no adjustments to the sights what so ever me and several others were getting very tight grouping at 100 yards. so scope is mounted on the front and only rail with 2 steel mounting rings, the rings themselves i can make no adjustments to. obviously this is a problem the gunsmith needs to sort out its just that im small town and i have to drive about 2 hours where i bought the gun to get it looked at so im looking here for any solutions i can either do myself or inform the gunsmith of so he can make the proper corrections.
thanks for all the info guys, ive learned more on this forum than i did in the hours i spent trying to google this problem. please keep more ideas coming if you have them, i cant get my gun back to the gunsmith till tuesday anyways so any other info i could get till then, ive also not found another person on this forum with the same problem as me with the same model scope so if there is a similar thread somewhere that you have seen please link me, seriously any insight would be great as im at a complete loss as to why the scope is behaving this way. ive been out of the "gun world" for about 15 years but in my teens i did A LOT of competitive bench shooting and ive never seen a scope do this before, granted im talking about your standard bench rifle and scope setup, this is the first scout scope ive ever had on any gun. the ONLY thing i can think of off the top of my head is that my front rail isnt level but shouldnt the gunsmith have checked that the first time he mounted the scope?
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Take it apart and look at it. If the smith was inexperienced, he would have mounted up the scope and done some head scratching as to why he could not get the scope and the bore to converge. As I pointed out, you don't want it to, but if you don't think it through, you might not realize that.
So, if it was out by more than the adjustment of the scope, how did he 'fix' it? One of the things he might have done is cut up a couple of beer cans to make shim strips that he put between the bottom half of the scope ring, and the scope, only on the rear ring. That would effectively cant your scope down. So pull off the ring caps, lift out the scope, and remove any shims, if they are there. This is certainly a step you can do yourself, and is one that, if the shims are present, are clear evidence of what the problem is.
So, if it was out by more than the adjustment of the scope, how did he 'fix' it? One of the things he might have done is cut up a couple of beer cans to make shim strips that he put between the bottom half of the scope ring, and the scope, only on the rear ring. That would effectively cant your scope down. So pull off the ring caps, lift out the scope, and remove any shims, if they are there. This is certainly a step you can do yourself, and is one that, if the shims are present, are clear evidence of what the problem is.
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17,148 Posts
Your rifle and rail are most likely fine, unless someone has tinkered with them. The rifle wasn't designed for the scope you are using. All scopes aren't compatible with all rifles.
The front sight on the Socom is tall for a reason....the rifle prints higher than a full size M1A. The rail on the Scout and Socom models is intended for a 1x Red Dot sight or a low power Scout scope (less than 3x). Either one will have far more adjustment range than your scope, especially if it has a 30mm tube.
If you insist on using the Vortex, you can try higher rings or a faster load, possibly using 125 grain bullets.
thx again guys and further info
i checked for shims and none are present and its a trusted gun shop so i doubt their gunsmith would do anything as half assed as that. im also starting to think this "scout scope" i bought is not correct for a socom16 and originally i was planning on going with some kind of reflex or red dot sight but i was so amazed with the accuracy of the iron sights i wanted something that would give me that same accuracy at 200+ yards so i went the scope route. honestly now that ive seen how accurate the irons are if i end up scrapping this scope im not going to get anything else and just roll with iron sights until i can find a higher end scope thats been actually proven to work with the socom16. i knew getting an elcheapo scope would cause me a headache and i did it anyway, nobody but myself to blame really.
i checked for shims and none are present and its a trusted gun shop so i doubt their gunsmith would do anything as half assed as that. im also starting to think this "scout scope" i bought is not correct for a socom16 and originally i was planning on going with some kind of reflex or red dot sight but i was so amazed with the accuracy of the iron sights i wanted something that would give me that same accuracy at 200+ yards so i went the scope route. honestly now that ive seen how accurate the irons are if i end up scrapping this scope im not going to get anything else and just roll with iron sights until i can find a higher end scope thats been actually proven to work with the socom16. i knew getting an elcheapo scope would cause me a headache and i did it anyway, nobody but myself to blame really.
i cant believe that didnt occur to me, the thing about the front sight being higher than on a normal m1a. like i said earlier i been out of the gun world for a while so to me a scout scope is a scout scope. seriously thanks for this, if i do still want a scope i clearly need one that is designed for high caliber and a short barrel. im not in love with the scope itself other than the simple clean cross hairs and the massive amount of eye relief. in your opinion should i just get my money back and just rock the irons until i can get something a bit higher end and also designed for my gun? i know burris makes a scout model specifically for the socom16. i was planning on getting a higher end scope later down the road when i can afford it anyways. its a $140 scope and im not spending more than the scope is worth on some expensive adjustable mounting hardware just so it will function properly. well maybe this isnt such a great gun store because before i bought it i asked if it would work correctly with my gun, "no problem" was the response i got. its clearly meant for a much longer barrel rifle.
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17,148 Posts
The Leupold 2.5x Scout scope has 110 moa of elevation adjustment and will probably work just fine. Burris makes one similar.
A friend just picked up a Socom with a Kensight tritium front sight on an SEI gas lock. It is thicker than a standard sight but thinner than the factory socom sight. He had no problem ringing a 100yd plate earlier today, standing offhand.
A friend just picked up a Socom with a Kensight tritium front sight on an SEI gas lock. It is thicker than a standard sight but thinner than the factory socom sight. He had no problem ringing a 100yd plate earlier today, standing offhand.
oh dude yeah the iron sights on the socom are great, ill hit a metal gong at 100 yards all day with the irons easy, i just wanted more accuracy at longer range but the longer i think about it and the more info i get its becoming pretty clear this is not the scope for my gun at all. im thinking im just going to get my money back for the scope and mounts and just save for something better, this thing is just turning into a headache.
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