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Discussion Starter #121
My supreme Sixteen!

1. M1army
2. XM25REN
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Discussion Starter #123 (Edited)
Add me to the list. Titanium would be nice...
Ted, you are on the list!

Titanium is a non-starter, the original used an aluminum tube, we may improve on the tube by using a stronger aluminum alloy but using Titanium is too far a stretch in keeping with the original.

REN
 

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Discussion Starter #124
Ren's Spectacular Seventeen!

1. M1army
2. XM25REN
3. PILTDOWNHOA
4. HarryB
5. DMSDOG
6. case42so
7. RENCORP
8. hytekrednek
9. FerranteLJ1
10. Alpinacsi
11. Crazynoto
12. Cowtownscout
13. Majkani
14. forceman
15. Random Guy
16. HvyJet
17. Ted Brown

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I agree with Ted, A Titanium sionics suppressor would be awesome. But, if aluminum was good enough for uncle Sammy, it should be fine for my use.

Perhaps a titanium upgrade option?

Oh well. Cant have it all.
 

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I'm not a mechanical engineer or a metallurgist, but I do know that Titanium has historically been used on jet aircraft exhaust systems b/c it is lightweight, very strong, and perhaps most importantly - titanium can withstand immense heat/thermal cycles of jet engine exhaust gases without much oxidizing. (Note: there are various grades of titanium and I am referring to aero-space grade titanium).

Today, I think titanium is used for the internal baffling system of many quality 7.62mm sound suppressors for very the same reasons I listed here. If the outer case of the original Sonics M14 was aircraft grade aluminum, perhaps a discussion could be had with the prospective manufacture re the baffling material, in particular the initial blast baffle? I don't know what the original baffles were made of, but per Lysander's posts, I doubt that had access to Titanium back in the late 1960s for the suppressors, and my guess is the originals are not as durable as today's sound suppressors given advancements in materials. Here's a quick article on the baffle material types, pros and cons:

Suppressor Baffle Materials
  1. Aluminum Baffles
  2. Stainless Steel Baffles
  3. Inconel Baffles
  4. Stellite Baffles
  5. Titanium Baffles
  6. Chrome Moly Steel Baffles
  7. Unobtanium Baffles
Again, I am not a metallurgist, but baffle material is something to think about...
 

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Discussion Starter #128 (Edited)
Below, the innerworkings of the Sionics suppressor.

The tube was made of Aluminum, so we are planning on using a stronger aluminum alloy.

The baffles were made of steel, stainless is preferred, and will last a life time.

The weak parts are the wipes and the valve spring. The wipes were made of a hard rubber or some similar material. We are looking at finding a more durable heat resistant material, similar in composition.
In the valve the spring was the weak link and we are taking a look at finding a stronger more durable spring, if not...ok.

Another thing to consider is the flat faced spanner wrench, used to disassemble the suppressor.
I can ask if you guys are interested how much to provide them with the suppressor.



REN
 

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Discussion Starter #129
It is my thoughts that we should stay as close to the original as possible, after all we are not trying to reinvent it, just improve it.

While some of these materials like Titanium are an improvement, they take us away from our objective, which is to replicate what we other wise cannot buy.

On another note Titanium will certainly drive up cost!

REN
 

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Seems like the lot of you should decide why you're interested replicating this suppressor.
  • Is your collective interest for this suppressor reproduction for it to be optimally functional and retain its physical integrity for as long as possible, and also to look the part of the original?
  • Is it to have the most authentic reproduction (in spite of "better," more modern material availability) and then not necessarily to be fired often, if ever.
  • Is a reproduction of a historical rarity treated with the same reverence that the original is?
  • Since it can be reproduced from the original design (as long as the manufacturer is making more runs, anyway), is the reproduction "allowed" to be used since it's ultimately replaceable (at some cost, which is seems is pretty typical of a suppressor) and in the interests of value, the modern materials should be used to retain the reproductions life under use?
 

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Discussion Starter #131
I welcome opinions from those who have a vested interest in this project, those who have already committed, those seventeen.

electricnic, would you like me to add your name to the list?

REN
 

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electricnic, would you like me to add your name to the list?
No, thank you. I do think the project is neat, and I can appreciate the risk you're taking, but it's not my thing - I don't have an affinity for collection pieces.

I only chimed in after reading @Random Guy's post; it seemed like everyone might not be on the same page with respect to their interest in this reproduction. Some may want it as a collector's piece, others might want to actually use it with some frequency due to its unique valve design. Those two very different use cases may influence the reproduction process (i.e. materials used, process, etc).

Best to get everyone's expectations set before the work gets started. I'll go back to my hole now.
 
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I want one to use frequently. It seems like the best design out there for the m14. If better materials result in a longer usable life, then yes, I would prefer that. I will settle for whatever I can get as long as it last a good while in use.
Anyone know the lifespan of the originals?
 

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Discussion Starter #134 (Edited)
Yes, I do. The original was good for about 200 rounds or about every 6 months. The weakness with the Sionics was the wipes, made of a polyurethane or some similar material it simply did last long before it deteriorated and had to be replaced.
We will be actively looking for a better material. The plus side is it’s easy to replace, and cheap.
The other weakness was the spring in the valve, it just would not stand up to the heat , and under automatic fire, it would simply melt. We will also be looking into finding a solution, but it is possible none will be available based on the design we have to work with.

I believe that there is no way to make everyone happy with the final outcome. So it is my intention to build a Sionics Suppressor that is true to the original design, with up grades in materials, where possible.

Materials such as stainless steel baffles, 7000 series aluminum alloy for the tube and a more durable material used to produce the wipes which hopefully will be more heat resistant.

Otherwise, it will be a Vietnam war era Sionics Suppressor in every since of the name.

If a few folks drop out, ok but we were not likely to get to the 25 threshold anyway. So, the $1200 dollar per will apply to five-ten- fifteen units which is about where we stand at this time.

Early next week I will be asking for deposits of 25 percent.

Any further communication will be through email: [email protected]

If your interested contact me through the email address above.

In the subject line put, your name and your user name from this site.

I hope everyone stays on board, it will be a very unique piece completing your XM21 dream M14.

Respectfully,
Ren
 

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The 556 version had no rubber (urethane) wipes like the Sionics 9mm and 45 SMG suppressors did.. I would guess the 7.62 version would also be wipeless. Those encapsulators really could be stainless or inconel... I will be happy however it is built.
 

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Discussion Starter #136
The 556 version had no rubber (urethane) wipes like the Sionics 9mm and 45 SMG suppressors did.. I would guess the 7.62 version would also be wipeless. Those encapsulators really could be stainless or inconel... I will be happy however it is built.
Thanks, we will not be deviating too far from the original. Using materials that enhance the suppressor is possible, Titanium is a no go.

Ren
 

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Discussion Starter #138 (Edited)
If no one backs out, we are at eighteen.
I need your email addresses, name, address and soon your FFL/Class III. Please email me with your full name and your user name in the subject.

Email: [email protected]

1. M1army- email received
2. XM25REN- Obviously
3. PILTDOWNHOA- email received
4. HarryB
5. DMSDOG
6. case42so
7. RENCORP
8. hytekrednek
9. FerranteLJ1
10. Alpinacsi- email received
11. Crazynoto
12. Cowtownscout - email received
13. Majkani- email received
14. forceman
15. Random Guy
16. HvyJet- email received
17. HvyJet- “ “ “ “ “ “ “
18. Ted Brown

REN
 

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Discussion Starter #139
Is there a decent quality video on the sionics suppressor on youtube or something?
No sir, none that I could find, plenty of videos of the Mac10 and Mac 11 suppressors on YouTube.

The information on the M14 SS-1 suppressor is very limited. No videos.

REN
 

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Discussion Starter #140 (Edited)
I want one to use frequently. It seems like the best design out there for the m14. If better materials result in a longer usable life, then yes, I would prefer that. I will settle for whatever I can get as long as it last a good while in use.
Anyone know the lifespan of the originals?
While researching on the Sionics suppressor I found a statement by Sionics that the suppressor had a life expectancy equal to an M14 barrel. Yes it does need to be maintained but that’s no different than maintaining your rifle, I mean who shoots five or ten thousand rounds and then cleans?

Do you drive your vehicle 50,000 miles without doing anything to maintain it?

Those of you who want one need to email me.

NOT A HOBBY, BUT A PASSION

Thanks
REN 😎
 
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